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Thread: What did you expect from the Broncos offense this year?

  1. #16
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    I think it's critical that we get the TE's involved.

    It kinda seems like our offense is rudimentary until they get Trevor completely up to speed, and all the pieces clicking together?

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    Here is my theory on why the offense, and mainly Siemian, seems to have regressed. For the first few weeks teams had next to zero pro tape on Siemian, and really not even that much college tape if they wanted to study him there. So he was really a complete unknown. Now that teams have more tape on him and know his tendencies, it's not as easy for him as it was early on. So the question now is if he's good enough to adjust back. He very well might not be. If he isn't, this might be the best we ever see him play again. It will be interesting to see play out.

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    I expected worse than we are seeing. It's a rookie QB running an offense that looked mediocre last season with a HOF'er running it for half the season.


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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Here is my theory on why the offense, and mainly Siemian, seems to have regressed. For the first few weeks teams had next to zero pro tape on Siemian, and really not even that much college tape if they wanted to study him there. So he was really a complete unknown. Now that teams have more tape on him and know his tendencies, it's not as easy for him as it was early on. So the question now is if he's good enough to adjust back. He very well might not be. If he isn't, this might be the best we ever see him play again. It will be interesting to see play out.
    I made this point early on with Oz last season, and again this season with Siemian, not to get too excited until he's performing well past the first few weeks.

    It seemed both times that I got more pushback than I expected on that, but that's the nature of message boards. .. .folks that agree with you nod their head silently, those that disagree are more vocal.

    We're seeing the same thing with Wentz. First 3 games, he was amazing. More pedestrian the last few.

    Once defensive coordinators have enough snaps on film, they can figure out what a QB does well, and what they don't. And then they can start creating game plans to force that QB into doing what they don't do well, or don't like. To compound on this, once DC's create such a gameplan, other DC's get to shrink it down even more, and improve on it.

    A QB who is going to have long-term success in the NFL has to be able to overcome those initial weaknesses, and keep defenses off balance. Osweiler, for example, hasn't been able to take that next step so far. We'll see if Siemian can.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    I made this point early on with Oz last season, and again this season with Siemian, not to get too excited until he's performing well past the first few weeks.

    It seemed both times that I got more pushback than I expected on that, but that's the nature of message boards. .. .folks that agree with you nod their head silently, those that disagree are more vocal.

    We're seeing the same thing with Wentz. First 3 games, he was amazing. More pedestrian the last few.

    Once defensive coordinators have enough snaps on film, they can figure out what a QB does well, and what they don't. And then they can start creating game plans to force that QB into doing what they don't do well, or don't like. To compound on this, once DC's create such a gameplan, other DC's get to shrink it down even more, and improve on it.

    A QB who is going to have long-term success in the NFL has to be able to overcome those initial weaknesses, and keep defenses off balance. Osweiler, for example, hasn't been able to take that next step so far. We'll see if Siemian can.

    Dak had a harder time last game too, maybe he is starting to run into trouble.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weazel View Post
    I expected worse than we are seeing. It's a rookie QB running an offense that looked mediocre last season with a HOF'er running it for half the season.
    Mediocre? At what point did we rise to mediocrity last year?

    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    It seemed both times that I got more pushback than I expected on that, but that's the nature of message boards. .. .folks that agree with you nod their head silently, those that disagree are more vocal.
    I didn't see ANYONE nodding their head silently. So take that.

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    I expected a better offensive line and everything offensively would follow. The only thing the offensive line has been is offensive save a couple of games. The run game and the pass game have followed suit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    Come on now, don't hold back-- tell us how you really feel. . .
    I expected that the oline would show even a little bit of improvement over last year with the addition of Okung and Stephenson. It seems like it's actually worse. I expected DT would get his head out of his pooper and get the drops out of his system.

    I didn't expect a qb to just come in first year and light it up. And I think a lot of his issues right now stem from running for his life because the oline is just so damn shitty.

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  13. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoWave View Post
    Here is my theory on why the offense, and mainly Siemian, seems to have regressed. For the first few weeks teams had next to zero pro tape on Siemian, and really not even that much college tape if they wanted to study him there. So he was really a complete unknown. Now that teams have more tape on him and know his tendencies, it's not as easy for him as it was early on. So the question now is if he's good enough to adjust back. He very well might not be. If he isn't, this might be the best we ever see him play again. It will be interesting to see play out.
    I still tend to think the film is overrated in terms of regression. Yes, there may be some tendencies they pick up, but mostly they are doing film study to pick up what plays they run out of certain formations and the like. Granted, if they pick up tendencies that he rarely throws to his left, or generally goes to x receiver from y formation, there could be some advantage.

    However, part of what you have to look at is what's causing the incomplete for instance. If he takes a blind side hit in under 2 seconds, film doesn't cause that, but if he goes to _____ 80% of the time on third and long, that could.

    A few other tidbits. As previously mentioned, and it won't be until this weekend that I get to look at all the third downs, the handful I looked at, it appeared that throwing short of the sticks on 3rd and long was designed and not check downs.

    Also, I don't know what this says about Simian, but it sounds like a good thing to me, and that is that in multiple games, including this last one, he's done well when being blitzed. So, when teams blitz and therefore leave someone uncovered, he's picking that up and capitalizing. In this past game, he was 9 of 12 for 151 yards when blitzed and I've read that about multiple games as well. However, when pressured, he was just 41%.

    So, that tells me he's capable of diagnosing plays and taking advantage of mismatches, but isn't doing well under pressure, but as Kubiak pointed out, there was a lot of pressure and lot of hits, especially in the first half.

    I bring that up in terms of signs of progression, amongst the potential macro regression, and that it's hard to separate out regression due to play calling and lack of protection, from Siemian regressing or making bad plays/decisions, which he clearly has done as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmore View Post
    I expected a better offensive line and everything offensively would follow. The only thing the offensive line has been is offensive save a couple of games. The run game and the pass game have followed suit.
    And Kubiak, seemingly being a one trick pony (a pony I like, I should add), never calls a good gameplan when his line and running game fail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tned View Post
    And Kubiak, seemingly being a one trick pony (a pony I like, I should add), never calls a good gameplan when his line and running game fail.
    This does seem to be a common theme. Unfortunately, if you can't block, you can't run and it makes it mighty hard to throw.
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  17. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmore View Post
    This does seem to be a common theme. Unfortunately, if you can't block, you can't run and it makes it mighty hard to throw.
    Yes, but that's when you start running shotgun, spread, quick hitting plays, etc.

    I know it's ancient history now, but the game I will never forget is the AFCCG against Pitt. The Broncos were completely unable to run against the Steelers. Even in the second half, while down by multiple scores and only a handful of rushing yards, they were still calling play action passes (with no runs in between the play action passes), where the QB was turning his back to the rushers, and the tackles were faking runs, before transitioning into pass blocking, and the Steelers weren't buying it at all and just blowing past the tackles and hitting Plummer as he would turn out of his play action.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tned View Post
    Yes, but that's when you start running shotgun, spread, quick hitting plays, etc.

    I know it's ancient history now, but the game I will never forget is the AFCCG against Pitt. The Broncos were completely unable to run against the Steelers. Even in the second half, while down by multiple scores and only a handful of rushing yards, they were still calling play action passes (with no runs in between the play action passes), where the QB was turning his back to the rushers, and the tackles were faking runs, before transitioning into pass blocking, and the Steelers weren't buying it at all and just blowing past the tackles and hitting Plummer as he would turn out of his play action.
    I remember that game pretty clear. Like you said... one trick pony.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canmore View Post
    I remember that game pretty clear. Like you said... one trick pony.
    Like Dumervil, but with shorter arms and less speed.

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    My initial expectations were that Oz would be the QB going into this season. While i expected him to struggle a bit i also figured he would improve throughout the season because he was already familiar with the players/system/coaching. But, when he left for Houston my expectations dropped because i knew that there just wasnt much out there in the way of QB's on the market. When we signed Dirty Sanchez i thought there might be a possibility that he could become something with a better organization behind him. Nope, he sucks and was cut because of it. So that left us with Siemien and Lynch where one guy knows the system but sat as a 3rd stringer the year before and the other was a much greener rookie. I figured with the youth the QB's would be able to make plays that Manning simply could not and yet have issues because of lack of experience behind center. Well, this season has basically played out the way i expected in that at times the Qb's have looked calm and confident and other times have looked like scared puppies and very indecisive. I certainly did not expect to be 6-2 at this point. That is just a bonus and considering some of the defensive talent we lost its actually quite amazing that we are still competing like we are for the division and a chance at the playoffs again.

    As far as the "regressing" issue that gets brought up i guess im just unclear of how those people view the QB position to begin with and how much time they as a fan allow a player to mature and learn through live game experience. Are people more impatient now than they were or is it something else? I was curious so i went and looked at a couple of QB's to see how they fared early on in their careers before becoming what they had become.

    John Elway (1983) QB Record: 4-6, 7 TD's, 14 Int's, QB Rating: 54.9 (Elway's 2nd year he had a QB Rating of 76.8 with a QB Record for that year at 12-2)
    Drew Brees (2002) QB Record: 8-8 17 TD's, 16 Int's, QB Rating: 76.9 (Brees 2nd year he had a QB Ratings of 67.5 with a QB Record for that year at 2-9)

    Interestingly enough Elway improved the second year while Brees struggled his sophomore year. But both QB's eventually went to be great QB's regardless of any struggles they had after a few games. Ive watched football for a long time and i can still remember early in John's career where he looked like a deer in the headlights. Not too unlike Siemien this past game. Do i think Siemien will become great? Doubtful. But im just trying to wrap my head around how people can automatically write off someone or determine that they have regressed when said player has only played a handful of games. In my opinion no matter if its Siemien, Lynch, Wentz, or Prescott you will find that these QB's will have bad games because as NTL stated teams do get tape on them. Defenses change and adapt and sometimes those things happen before the QB themselves can adapt and change. Because Denver has Lynch i dont think we will see Siemien beyond this year, at least as a starter. He would pretty much have to light it up the rest of the year to prove that he could be guy going forward. But im not so sure that he "regressed" as much as he is seeing new things thrown at him on the field to which he must now study and learn from. And yes, he isnt getting much help from the Oline or playcalling at times which adds to the problems on the field. And as much as i want to see Oz flounder and fail his story is not yet over either. Ive never seen a HOF QB created in their first year of playing professional football. Like ever.

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