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Thread: Rules question and I think it might be stupid

  1. #1
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    Default Rules question and I think it might be stupid

    Faking a field goal

    If your kicker can throw....

    Can he stand back, as the ball is snapped, the holder catches it and tosses it backwards to him, or somehow laterals it away from the rush

    Meanwhile someone from the edge of the pile breaks of for the end zone and the kicker forward pass it to him?

    That way the rush has further to travel to get to the ball

    I think I only ever saw the holder thought the ball

    But this could be a really retarded post

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    Back in the 90s you could substitute a qb for your kicker and score 6 instead of 3 almost every time.
    That may have been only in john madden football. Not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Faking a field goal

    If your kicker can throw....

    Can he stand back, as the ball is snapped, the holder catches it and tosses it backwards to him, or somehow laterals it away from the rush

    Meanwhile someone from the edge of the pile breaks of for the end zone and the kicker forward pass it to him?

    That way the rush has further to travel to get to the ball

    I think I only ever saw the holder thought the ball

    But this could be a really retarded post
    I'm not away of anything in the rules that would prevent that.

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    Does it happen often, I have never saw anyone but the holder throw it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Does it happen often, I have never saw anyone but the holder throw it
    I don't recall ever seeing it, other than maybe in a movie. I think it's a very low percentage play. A holder lines up seven yards behind the LOS, so he's already on the deep side compared to where a QB would be on a drop. A kicker lines up what, another five to seven yards behind that? So, that means the kicker would get the toss from the holder anywhere from 10-12+ yards behind the LOS. Let's say it was a 4th and 5, that means he's going to have to complete a 15-17 yard pass, just to get the first down.

    I think more than anything, it's just a very low percentage play, even if perfectly executed and a receiver is open uncovered down field.

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    My sons middle school runs that play everytime they score. The center holder and kicker line up like normal. The line is all shifted to the left. Center snaps the ball. The holder either laterals to the up back for a run, or laterals to the kicker for a pass to the tight end.

    The situation you described is similar to a HB Option pass which was killer on Bill Walsh college football for Sega.

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    Yeah, low percentage, but wouldn't it be an awesome play!!!

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    If the kicker could throw he would have played quarterback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dapper Dan View Post
    If the kicker could throw he would have played quarterback.
    Helpful

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    1. Usually the holder is a QB, or back-up QB. Someone good with their hands to catch the snap and place the ball. Someone much better suited for throwing than the kicker. That's why you almost always see the holder throw it in a fake throw scenario. But there would be no prohibition on the kicker throwing it.

    2. The person "sneaking out" of the pile to run toward the end-zone and catch the throw would have to be an eligible receiver. So, only the end player on the LOS (line of scrimmage), or someone lined up behind the LOS would be able to run out for a reception. Defenders are aware of this, and consequently are trained to keep an eye on these eligible receivers and cover them.
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    #1 used to be the case, but now it's primarily the punter. Most teams don't want their backup QB missing reps with the offense anymore.

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    They can't all be Jay Feely

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Faking a field goal

    If your kicker can throw....

    Can he stand back, as the ball is snapped, the holder catches it and tosses it backwards to him, or somehow laterals it away from the rush

    Meanwhile someone from the edge of the pile breaks of for the end zone and the kicker forward pass it to him?

    That way the rush has further to travel to get to the ball

    I think I only ever saw the holder thought the ball

    But this could be a really retarded post
    Sure can. Any player can throw the ball as long as they're behind the line of scrimmage, I believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Does it happen often, I have never saw anyone but the holder throw it
    I'm not recalling a specific example of the kicker throwing. Punters do it quite often. I'd say it's more common at the college level. Les Miles likes to run a fake field goal where the holder flips the ball over his shoulder to the kicker who tries to run around the edge. Mike Dantonio at Michigan State also runs that play. I'm sure there's a variation in the playbook that calls for the kicker to throw to an end.

    The kicker is that the only person eligible to receive the pass would be the last guy on each side of the line, unless the ends lined up off the line of scrimmage which in that case I believe the last two guys on the line would be eligible to catch it. The holder would also be eligible.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

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    The holder is usually the one to throw because it needs to happen fast. A lateral in that situation is just too much time at NFL speed.

    If you look at these types of trick plays you'll see how fast it needs to be in order to work.

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