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Thread: Elway Denies Talib Trade Rumors

  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    While I concede Talib's a good choice if the team needs juice (that how he got his FIRST suspension,) he's >30 at a speed position AND plays a very physical style. Like his mentor Darrell Green, Champ showed no age—until he fell of a cliff just three years older than Talib is now. And Talib doesn't have nearly as far to fall.

    Juice up, gramps.
    Until a player falls off, if they're truly great, you don't anticipate for them to fall off. He's not a speedster, he doesn't rely on it. He relies on a strong form and intellect. He hasn't gotten weaker, he's just as smart, and he's shown zero dropoff. Revis hasn't been a speedster for several years now, he's still a top five corner by most accounts. In regards to Champ Bailey's play, people were saying he was going to fall off five to six years before he did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  3. #32
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    Facemasking thugs like Talib have no place on my 5th or 6th most favorite team.
    "Tuning ... into each other ... lift all higher”
    “I’m just different!”

    Sign Garbage Minshew.

    Draft
    1st round— Cooper Dejean CB
    2nd round— Jack Sawyer OLB
    3rd round— Will Shipley RB
    4th round— Ricky Pearsall WR
    5th round— Ladd McKonkey WR
    6th round— Cash Jones RB
    7th round— Carson Steele RB

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  5. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    Until a player falls off, if they're truly great, you don't anticipate for them to fall off. He's not a speedster, he doesn't rely on it. He relies on a strong form and intellect. He hasn't gotten weaker, he's just as smart, and he's shown zero dropoff. Revis hasn't been a speedster for several years now, he's still a top five corner by most accounts. In regards to Champ Bailey's play, people were saying he was going to fall off five to six years before he did.
    People said "age" would catch Champ at 28? Which people? Regardless, Talib's not "truly great." He's good, and augments that with cheap shots when the ref's not looking (or even when he is, because come at me, bro) but he's been dismantled too many times by too many WRs to qualify as "elite."

    So what's left when age equally "augmented" by years of "physical" (read: Dirty) play catch up with a good-but-not-great player? Nothing good; certainly nothing worth $10M/yr when we've got 2-3 much younger and cheaper CBs with a legitimate shot at eliteness waiting in the wings.

    Turning the NFL into the UFC requires no talent; years of abuse by Steve Smith or getting beaten up by a double-concussed WR smaller than ME isn't "greatness."
    Last edited by Joel; 09-04-2016 at 01:26 AM.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
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  6. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    People said "age" would catch Champ at 28? Which people? Regardless, Talib's not "truly great." He's good, and augments that with cheap shots when the ref's not looking (or even when he is, because come at me, bro) but he's been dismantled too many times by too many WRs to qualify as "elite."

    So what's left when age equally "augmented" by years of "physical" (read: Dirty) play catch up with a good-but-not-great player? Nothing good; certainly nothing worth $10M/yr when we've got 2-3 much younger and cheaper CBs with a legitimate shot at eliteness waiting in the wings.
    Yup, because he was pushing thirty and his elite speed would fall off. Then it would fall off at 29, 30, et al. Talib has been a top five corner in the league for quite some time. He was an all-pro talent coming out of college that stumbled because he's a bit of a knucklehead. But for the past three or four seasons there's not been five better corners than Talib. And sure, he is dirty in the sense of late hits and PF, but he's physical in the sense of press coverage, run stoppping, et al.

    It comes down to when his play falls off. Until then, there's no reason he's not worth that money, especially when you need the defense to stay as good as possible because of the offense. When he goes he takes ballhawkish tendencies, tackling, leadership, fire, experience, and coverage ability with him. So there better be some high value if he leaves because he's needed now more than ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  8. #35
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    Don't stop Talibing!
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  10. #36
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    Can you imagine how giddy Joel was when he saw that tweet? And how pissed he was when Elway dashed his dreams?
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

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  11. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    Yup, because he was pushing thirty and his elite speed would fall off. Then it would fall off at 29, 30, et al. Talib has been a top five corner in the league for quite some time. He was an all-pro talent coming out of college that stumbled because he's a bit of a knucklehead. But for the past three or four seasons there's not been five better corners than Talib. And sure, he is dirty in the sense of late hits and PF, but he's physical in the sense of press coverage, run stoppping, et al.

    It comes down to when his play falls off. Until then, there's no reason he's not worth that money, especially when you need the defense to stay as good as possible because of the offense. When he goes he takes ballhawkish tendencies, tackling, leadership, fire, experience, and coverage ability with him. So there better be some high value if he leaves because he's needed now more than ever.
    Literally everyone says we have a top five CB: Chris Harris Jr. But among those whose judgement of NFL players is good enough to earn a comfortable living, Bucky Brooks is the ONLY one who ranks Talib among the top five (while snubbing Harris completely; yet again I wonder HOW his judgement earns his living.)
    Fox
    SI
    BR
    MMQB (i.e. a different SI take)

    The last two are willing to go as high as 11th and 8th, respectively, but that's it. Maybe Talib will improve; elevate his play to the point someone other than his fans considers him a top five CB—but that's pretty unlikely since he's already past 30. You know what they say: It's not the years, it's the MILEAGE; whatever one thinks of Talibs playing style, it's put a lot more mileage on his aging body than most CBs see.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  12. #38

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    Is Harris out there covering the number one, Joel? Because I read those lists andI laughed hard at it. For instance, Fox thinks Slay is better than Talib? Josh 'I've had one good season' Norman is better? The same guy who literally plays cover two zone? Come on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  14. #39
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    Chris Harris doesn't rely on speed either, they better start replacing him.
    "Tuning ... into each other ... lift all higher”
    “I’m just different!”

    Sign Garbage Minshew.

    Draft
    1st round— Cooper Dejean CB
    2nd round— Jack Sawyer OLB
    3rd round— Will Shipley RB
    4th round— Ricky Pearsall WR
    5th round— Ladd McKonkey WR
    6th round— Cash Jones RB
    7th round— Carson Steele RB

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  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Chris Harris doesn't rely on speed either, they better start replacing him.
    Chris Harris didn't turn 30 six months ago: He turned 27 three months ago. While I concede it's WAY too early to rank Norman as a top CB, sucker punching guys in the back of the head after the whistle is NOT a criterion of "greatness." It actually tends to be how subpar players compensate for LACK of talent.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Chris Harris didn't turn 30 six months ago: He turned 27 three months ago. While I concede it's WAY too early to rank Norman as a top CB, sucker punching guys in the back of the head after the whistle is NOT a criterion of "greatness." It actually tends to be how subpar players compensate for LACK of talent.
    You can be a great player and be dirty. In fact, many of the all-time great players fit that criteria. You might have heard of the 70's Steelers (Mel Blount), Rodney Harrison, or Rod Woodson. Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs would like to have a word with you. In fact, James Harrison would as well. Wasn't there a safety in San Fran who was known as a hard hitting monster that was accused of being dirty? Isn't that guy in the HoF?

    It seems strange that Talib would be called for having a lack of talent when he fell in the draft because of his attitude and actions...NOT talent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Von Kinger View Post
    You can be a great player and be dirty. In fact, many of the all-time great players fit that criteria. You might have heard of the 70's Steelers (Mel Blount), Rodney Harrison, or Rod Woodson. Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs would like to have a word with you. In fact, James Harrison would as well. Wasn't there a safety in San Fran who was known as a hard hitting monster that was accused of being dirty? Isn't that guy in the HoF?

    It seems strange that Talib would be called for having a lack of talent when he fell in the draft because of his attitude and actions...NOT talent.
    Saying great players CAN be dirty and average or worse players ONLY overperform by being dirty aren't mutually exclusive. And yeah, if this were 40 years ago DBs who "covered" like Mel Blount and Jack Ham did might be considered great, but those guys are literally why PI and illegal contact rules were INVENTED. And comparing Talib to James Harrison or a double-murderer like Ray Lewis... whose side are you on here?
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Saying great players CAN be dirty and average or worse players ONLY overperform by being dirty aren't mutually exclusive. And yeah, if this were 40 years ago DBs who "covered" like Mel Blount and Jack Ham did might be considered great, but those guys are literally why PI and illegal contact rules were INVENTED. And comparing Talib to James Harrison or a double-murderer like Ray Lewis... whose side are you on here?
    It seemed like you were saying he was dirty because he sucked. If he's great (and he is) and he's dirty, who cares? Harrison was a dominant player. Ray Lewis is the greatest defender ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    Y’all know I’m an OL Groupie but I think Jeudy is going to be worth missing out on a T, knock on wood.

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  21. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Then we're doubly blessed to have Harris AND Roby. Frankly, with two elite CBs who excel on the edge AND in the slot, an aging fragile suspension-magnet is a luxury; at $10M this year and $12 the next, a luxury we can ill afford (in multiple senses.) I feel pretty good about Webster on any given teams THIRD best receiver.
    Suspension magnet maybe- but anyone who can recover from a gunshot wound in weeks is hardly fragile. Dude is tough as hell. Talib is needed if we are truly trying to chase another one. It's not just his play - his mean mindset is huge for the d.

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  23. #45
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    Remember after the Super Bowl loss how much Joel wanted a defense like Seattle's?

    Yeah. Me too.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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