Thread: The DC & Marvel Universes and All Things Involved

Originally Posted by Freyaka

The fanboys are melting down. Brace yourselves, even though i've heard absolutely NOTHING but positive out of this film, it's going to be The Last Jedi's divisiveness all over again.

I had a friend over in Germany who got to see the preview of Endgame and said it was "alright" but not better than Infinity War. Weird that Endgame would not be better but yea so far it seems to be unliked.

Well, ive read the plotline for Endgame and although there are some sad moments i think overall the movie will be good as it sets up a lot of cool things that i felt were kind of unfinished in the past. Obviously i have not seen it yet but just by the plot sounds like it will be fine.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

Haven't heard any fallout yet, but I have a pretty good theory that I believe to be the plot that I think could be controversial. I am going to bite my tongue until I see it, though.

Yea, It's involving a spoiled plot point, I won't say a word on it either, but people are melting down and talking about boycotting marvel going forward over it...

#silly

I'm going to see it in IMAX on Saturday.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Yea, It's involving a spoiled plot point, I won't say a word on it either, but people are melting down and talking about boycotting marvel going forward over it...

#silly

I'm going to see it in IMAX on Saturday.

So the usual for fan boys?

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

So the usual for fan boys?

The worst vocal minority there is.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

The worst vocal minority there is.

Speaking of, I have a bit of a rant regarding Endgame! Nothing too bad, just an observation about plot elements that bugged me. This sucker will be SPOILER FILLED so tread lightly! Last warning...

 

I thought Endgame was a great comic book movie, and the time travel heist was both what I expected and feared from a comic book movie. The thing is, I kinda thought that Winter Soldier, Infinity War, etc (basically the Russo bros films) took comic book tropes and put them on their heads. All of the emotional resonance, no matter how shallow it was knowing most of the "dead" had sequels in the works, was literally undone in Endgame. I know that was kinda the point because this is either a soft stop or a reboot of the MCU moving forward but as much as I tried the plot holes kept sneaking their way into my brain when I was just trying to enjoy the movie.

The stealing of the Infinity Stones and then putting them back made zero sense even though they tried to explain it about 3 times, including with the Sorceress Supreme. And Cap literally taking himself out of the timeline would have MAJOR repercussions on that reality they tried so hard to not mess up. Who was leading the battle of New York? Who stopped Red Skull in WWII? Who brought Bucky back from madness?

I kept shrugging it off, but then the scene at the end REALLY took me out of the film. We see Spider-man meeting up with his chubby friend in High School in this new timeline. Five years after the snap. The same timeline where everyone who wasn't snapped kept aging, such as Scott Lang's daughter. The implication was his friend thought Peter was dead, so did he just hold himself back in high school for five years?

As carefully crafted as the MCU has been, it was kind of tough to see so many continuity errors in the big finale. I don't mind complex time travel stories, but don't make them so complicated you can't follow your own rules. The five year time jump after the snap could've been omitted and fixed most of these issues.

I know it sounds like I am hating on this movie, but this is mostly a vent to get it out of my system. Loved the flick and all the action (save for the overpowered Captain Marvel who seemed like another easy button since she has shown up), but the whole was definitely better than the sum of its parts.

Such a ******* epic movie overall though, and a worthy end to the franchise. My hope is that they do a few one-offs then reboot the entire thing in a few years. Phase 4 would be fine, but how about going back to the beginning in the multiverse somewhere especially now since they have Fantastic Four and X-Men?

Also the best part of the movie was fat Thor. Especially when he dressed like the Big Lebowski.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

Speaking of, I have a bit of a rant regarding Endgame! Nothing too bad, just an observation about plot elements that bugged me. This sucker will be SPOILER FILLED so tread lightly! Last warning...

 

I thought Endgame was a great comic book movie, and the time travel heist was both what I expected and feared from a comic book movie. The thing is, I kinda thought that Winter Soldier, Infinity War, etc (basically the Russo bros films) took comic book tropes and put them on their heads. All of the emotional resonance, no matter how shallow it was knowing most of the "dead" had sequels in the works, was literally undone in Endgame. I know that was kinda the point because this is either a soft stop or a reboot of the MCU moving forward but as much as I tried the plot holes kept sneaking their way into my brain when I was just trying to enjoy the movie.

The stealing of the Infinity Stones and then putting them back made zero sense even though they tried to explain it about 3 times, including with the Sorceress Supreme. And Cap literally taking himself out of the timeline would have MAJOR repercussions on that reality they tried so hard to not mess up. Who was leading the battle of New York? Who stopped Red Skull in WWII? Who brought Bucky back from madness?

I kept shrugging it off, but then the scene at the end REALLY took me out of the film. We see Spider-man meeting up with his chubby friend in High School in this new timeline. Five years after the snap. The same timeline where everyone who wasn't snapped kept aging, such as Scott Lang's daughter. The implication was his friend thought Peter was dead, so did he just hold himself back in high school for five years?

As carefully crafted as the MCU has been, it was kind of tough to see so many continuity errors in the big finale. I don't mind complex time travel stories, but don't make them so complicated you can't follow your own rules. The five year time jump after the snap could've been omitted and fixed most of these issues.

I know it sounds like I am hating on this movie, but this is mostly a vent to get it out of my system. Loved the flick and all the action (save for the overpowered Captain Marvel who seemed like another easy button since she has shown up), but the whole was definitely better than the sum of its parts.

Such a ******* epic movie overall though, and a worthy end to the franchise. My hope is that they do a few one-offs then reboot the entire thing in a few years. Phase 4 would be fine, but how about going back to the beginning in the multiverse somewhere especially now since they have Fantastic Four and X-Men?

Also the best part of the movie was fat Thor. Especially when he dressed like the Big Lebowski.

Tough crowd!!

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

Tough crowd!!

Think of how critical I would be if I didn’t like it! I’m tough on things I love.

I figured there would be some issues with the timeline stuff. From my understanding just too many things that change with some of the characters to not expect the timeline to change but i do think its something people just have to try and overlook in order to enjoy what they were going for.

Aliens, space, gods, magic stones, fantasy costumes, fake science........... Time travel.

All cool.

Plot holes and time line issues........ Not cool

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

Aliens, space, gods, magic stones, fantasy costumes, fake science........... Time travel.

All cool.

Plot holes and time line issues........ Not cool

I can handle unlimited web slinger fitting into something the size of a lipstick tube, I can handle Infinity Stones, hell I can even buy that no one in Wakanda didn't just waste their vibranium on rims and big jewelry (kidding!), but the difference is that was all explained as "because". The stones work because. Spider-man can flip web shooters everywhere because. Vibranium is indestructible because. The minute you introduce Time Travel though, it becomes a mess which is why it's always considered a Deus Ex Machina and kind of lazy writing in regards to resolving something. The reason is you have to establish the rules and stick with it. HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD:

 

Endgame tried to explain their rules as not "Back to the Future", but divergent timelines based on actions in the past. The present isn't affected by time travel, like when they kill Thanos who was actually 2014 Thanos it doesn't stop Infinity War Thanos from existing, it just splinters off into a different multiverse. The problem is they never stuck to their own rules. Black Widow dead. Tony Stark dead. Vision dead. Gammora... alive? Why? Because she put herself into the present timeline via time travel. And if Steve Rogers went back and changed HIS timeline, how the **** did he end up on a bench as an old man in THEIR timeline.

By that rationale, they could go back to any point before Vision, Tony, Black Widow, etc. died and pluck them out and time travel them back to post Thanos army destruction. Hell, they could of all went back to stop Peter from screwing up the Thanos plan and just lived in THAT timeline. Now, moving forward with any future movie, the audience is always going to think, well just time travel and fix it dummy. It's the same problem Star Wars had with introducing light speed ramming as a thing that could take out a fleet. Why didn't the rebellion just light speed a bunch of ships piloted by astromechs towards the Death Star? Even if it didn't destroy it, it would certainly get jacked up.

Like I said just something I think cheapened the experience that could've been fixed by laying out some stricter rules or only having it work a certain way and only for a certain amount of time. Use mumbo jumbo, call it quantum leaps (sound familiar?!), but don't establish time travel rules and break them constantly after you make them.

Overall the movie is great, but I think it's a legitimate criticism that takes you out of the moments too often. I came here to feel, not to think! And mostly it was an awesome feeling watching the movie.

Originally Posted by Northman

I figured there would be some issues with the timeline stuff. From my understanding just too many things that change with some of the characters to not expect the timeline to change but i do think its something people just have to try and overlook in order to enjoy what they were going for.

And ultimately it is easy to overlook while watching, I just had to vent because it bugged me after the fact. Still and Incredible movie! I just think it was a few extra lines of explanation of being damn near perfect!

Originally Posted by MasterShake

I can handle unlimited web slinger fitting into something the size of a lipstick tube, I can handle Infinity Stones, hell I can even buy that no one in Wakanda didn't just waste their vibranium on rims and big jewelry (kidding!), but the difference is that was all explained as "because". The stones work because. Spider-man can flip web shooters everywhere because. Vibranium is indestructible because. The minute you introduce Time Travel though, it becomes a mess which is why it's always considered a Deus Ex Machina and kind of lazy writing in regards to resolving something. The reason is you have to establish the rules and stick with it. HUGE SPOILERS AHEAD:

 

Endgame tried to explain their rules as not "Back to the Future", but divergent timelines based on actions in the past. The present isn't affected by time travel, like when they kill Thanos who was actually 2014 Thanos it doesn't stop Infinity War Thanos from existing, it just splinters off into a different multiverse. The problem is they never stuck to their own rules. Black Widow dead. Tony Stark dead. Vision dead. Gammora... alive? Why? Because she put herself into the present timeline via time travel. And if Steve Rogers went back and changed HIS timeline, how the **** did he end up on a bench as an old man in THEIR timeline.

By that rationale, they could go back to any point before Vision, Tony, Black Widow, etc. died and pluck them out and time travel them back to post Thanos army destruction. Hell, they could of all went back to stop Peter from screwing up the Thanos plan and just lived in THAT timeline. Now, moving forward with any future movie, the audience is always going to think, well just time travel and fix it dummy. It's the same problem Star Wars had with introducing light speed ramming as a thing that could take out a fleet. Why didn't the rebellion just light speed a bunch of ships piloted by astromechs towards the Death Star? Even if it didn't destroy it, it would certainly get jacked up.

Like I said just something I think cheapened the experience that could've been fixed by laying out some stricter rules or only having it work a certain way and only for a certain amount of time. Use mumbo jumbo, call it quantum leaps (sound familiar?!), but don't establish time travel rules and break them constantly after you make them.

Overall the movie is great, but I think it's a legitimate criticism that takes you out of the moments too often. I came here to feel, not to think! And mostly it was an awesome feeling watching the movie.

you can exist in any time line though - and doing so doesnt change what happened in the original strand of time before causing splinter strands

it's science

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

you can exist in any time line though - and doing so doesnt change what happened in the original strand of time before causing splinter strands

it's science

I’ll just accept that answer and move on to real world concerns, like hating the bourgeoisie pigs!

Originally Posted by MasterShake

I’ll just accept that answer and move on to real world concern, like hating the bourgeoisie pigs!

you know how to talk dirty to me!!