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Thread: The DC & Marvel Universes and All Things Involved

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
    I heard Killing Joke was pretty bad so I haven't seen it yet either. I don't want to taint one of my favorite graphic novels if I don't have to. I wasn't really impressed with The Dark Knight Returns animated film either. Its weird because the animated films can be hit or miss. I thought Batman vs Robin would be bad and I really ended up enjoying it.
    I liked how "graphic" Dark Knight Returns was. I thought they pushed some boundaries there. Much like how the JL movies have been doing it with adding "vulgar" language here and there. Keeps the characters more human, IMO. But Part 2 was much better than Part 1. Under the Red Hood is still the best Batman film, IMO.

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    First pic of Aquaman's Queen from Zack Snyder's Twitter:


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    Neat. Digging the Flash outfit:


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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
    Neat. Digging the Flash outfit:

    Yea it's alright...I still prefer the suit on the show



    But it needs to be a brighter red IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freyaka View Post
    Yea it's alright...I still prefer the suit on the show



    But it needs to be a brighter red IMO.
    Yeah the one in the show is more or less comic accurate but they are both pretty muted. I think the one in the movie is one Bruce Wayne made for him. Maybe his suit at the beginning of the film is closer to that. The Batman and Wonder Woman suits look great in that picture though. I always preferred the gray batsuit with the shorter ears, nice to see it on screen finally.

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    Ok this guy absolutely nails why DC should stay the course with their themes and say **** it to the critics that want them to play it safe:

    Criticism is always welcome and valid when it pertains to dialogue, cinematography, and the artistic execution of a film in relation to the creators’ ambitions and intent. But as anyone can understand, criticism becomes infinitely less constructive or progressive when the ambitions and intents being executed upon are assumed. And when a critic deems that a film has totally and completely failed to execute upon its assumed intent to the extent that it fails in each and every respect, and even the motivations behind that intent are called into question, one must – and should – ask if the intention has been misunderstood. That’s not a slight against critics or criticism, either – even great critics have (often famously) misunderstood great art. But as criticism escalates to extremes, it becomes even more important to ask the question: is there an intention or ambition that the film does succeed (to a greater degree) in exploring? And is there more evidence to support that intention than the assumed one that the film seems to completely ignore?

    The refusal of some to believe that a director’s choices are actually that – choices – and not a product of total obliviousness or misunderstanding is one we may never understand. But it’s a simple idea: if Zack Snyder wanted audiences to believe Superman was infallible and above the moral dilemmas of our world, then he wouldn’t have needed to kill Zod. If David Ayer wanted audiences to believe doing the right thing outweighed the mistakes of your past, then the Suicide Squad wouldn’t have wound up back in their prison cells. And if Zack Snyder wanted audiences to think that good people are immune to being manipulated by paranoia and fear, Batman wouldn’t have succumbed to it. If he had intended the audience to take comfort in the fact that waging war based on xenophobia and a ‘greater good’ can be undone, reversed, and made up for… Superman wouldn’t wind up in a coffin.
    While Marvel movies are fun and safe, they offer exactly what we expect. I like Marvel films, but DC is presenting a depth and subversion to characters that everyone "thinks" they own.

    Read the full article here. It's REALLY good: http://screenrant.com/dceu-movies-critics-wrong/

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    Meh, art is subjective like most things. I dont think its a misunderstanding as it is so much just personal taste. While i composed my lists i was a little shocked by how many Marvel movies were either bad or just pretty much forgettable. But DC has been a bit worse for me when it comes to what it thought were great movies vs ho hum to really bad. Part of DC's problems i think is some of the acting or just bad script writing. Here's basically the hit or misses for each franchise for me.



    Hits:


    Punisher: War Zone (2008)
    Blade (series)
    Fantastic Four (2005)
    Spiderman (2002)
    X-Men (2000)
    Iron Man (2008)
    Iron Man 2 (2010)
    Thor (2010)
    X-Men: Last Stand (2006)
    X-Men 2 (2003)
    The Incredible Hulk (2008)
    X-Men: First Class (2011)
    Captain America (series)
    The Avengers (2012)
    Guardians of the Galaxy (2014)
    Ant Man (2015)
    Deadpool (2016)
    X-Men: Apocalypse (2016)
    Daredevil (Tv Series)




    Misses:


    Hulk (2003)
    Daredevil (2003)
    Punisher (2004)
    Elecktra (2005)
    Spiderman 2 (2004)
    Iron Man 3
    Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer (2007)
    Ghost Rider (2007)
    Spider Man 3 (2007)
    The Wolverine (2013)
    Thor: The Dark World (2013)
    X-Men: Days of Future Past (2014)
    Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015)
    Doctor Strange (2016)
    Agent Carter (Tv Series)
    Agents of SHIELD (Tv series)
    Jessica Jones (Tv Series)








    Hits:


    Swamp Thing (1982)
    Batman (1989)
    Batman Returns (1992)
    Batman Forever (1995)
    Batman (series 2005-)
    V for Vendetta (2006)
    Watchmen (2009)






    Misses:


    Batman & Robin (1997)
    Catwoman (2004)
    Superman Returns (2006)
    The Losers (2010)
    Jonah Hex (2010)
    Green Lantern (2011)
    Man of Steel (2013)
    Batman vs Superman (2016)
    Suicide Squad (2016)
    Gotham (Tv Series)

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  10. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    Meh, art is subjective like most things. I dont think its a misunderstanding as it is so much just personal taste. While i composed my lists i was a little shocked by how many Marvel movies were either bad or just pretty much forgettable. But DC has been a bit worse for me when it comes to what it thought were great movies vs ho hum to really bad. Part of DC's problems i think is some of the acting or just bad script writing. Here's basically the hit or misses for each franchise for me.
    Good points. I didn't take that from the article however. It was more about that even if something is a "miss" for someone that doesn't objectively make it a "bad" thing. Like you said, art is subjective. I think any of us here could make a decent to good Superman/Batman movie in our sleep because the characters are so well ingrained. The thing the article points out, and what I agree with, is that even though the new DC movies aren't for everyone at least they are treading new paths with established characters. Of the three movies, Suicide Squad is the only one I thought of as dumb fun but not a very good movie.

    Your list brings up a good point about the established DCEU vs The Marvel Studios Shared Universe. We are three movies into the DCEU:

    1. Man of Steel
    2. Batman v Superman
    3. Suicide Squad

    Versus the first 3 movies in the Marvel Universe:

    1. Iron Man
    2. The Incredible Hulk
    3. Iron Man 2

    I don't think Marvel really hit it's stride until Winter Soldier for me because that was the first film to really subvert the genre a bit. I even enjoyed Age of Ultron which was a miss for me, but still tried to take the franchise somewhere else.

    I think both Marvel and DC are at their best when they push the limits of their characters and stories into the real of "uncomfortable". Like, I really enjoyed Ant-Man and Doctor Strange but aside from some slick special effects I was waiting for the Marvel-esque beats in each movie and they came pretty much on cue. I really hope we see some messed up stuff in the Infinity War!

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    I dont mind uncomfortable but where BvS and SS had some interesting perspectives/characters it didnt quit give me the feeling as say Watchmen where i felt that is a "uncomfortable" movie that is executed well. Im good with that approach i just dont think DC has quite hit it yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    I dont mind uncomfortable but where BvS and SS had some interesting perspectives/characters it didnt quit give me the feeling as say Watchmen where i felt that is a "uncomfortable" movie that is executed well. Im good with that approach i just dont think DC has quite hit it yet.
    Agreed, which is why they need to keep going forward and improving while still challenging the viewer when they can. Personally I like the idea of a character like Batman being so shattered at this point in his career that he is basically working his way back to the light. I had no issues with him killing in BvS because they hinted at why he was doing it. Marvel had a chance with Tony Stark to really explore his PTSD but they get close to the edge and have him say something quirky. I thought they did a great job in Civil War with his relationship with Steve though. I also like that I have Marvel movies for fun tentpole stuff and DC for grittier shit even though it doesn't always work. I hope they each stay in their lanes and see it through until both universes get rebooted again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
    Good points. I didn't take that from the article however. It was more about that even if something is a "miss" for someone that doesn't objectively make it a "bad" thing. Like you said, art is subjective. I think any of us here could make a decent to good Superman/Batman movie in our sleep because the characters are so well ingrained. The thing the article points out, and what I agree with, is that even though the new DC movies aren't for everyone at least they are treading new paths with established characters. Of the three movies, Suicide Squad is the only one I thought of as dumb fun but not a very good movie. Your list brings up a good point about the established DCEU vs The Marvel Studios Shared Universe. We are three movies into the DCEU: 1. Man of Steel 2. Batman v Superman 3. Suicide Squad Versus the first 3 movies in the Marvel Universe: 1. Iron Man 2. The Incredible Hulk 3. Iron Man 2 I don't think Marvel really hit it's stride until Winter Soldier for me because that was the first film to really subvert the genre a bit. I even enjoyed Age of Ultron which was a miss for me, but still tried to take the franchise somewhere else. I think both Marvel and DC are at their best when they push the limits of their characters and stories into the real of "uncomfortable". Like, I really enjoyed Ant-Man and Doctor Strange but aside from some slick special effects I was waiting for the Marvel-esque beats in each movie and they came pretty much on cue. I really hope we see some messed up stuff in the Infinity War!
    Why did Norton not stay as the hulk?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    Why did Norton not stay as the hulk?
    Apparently he was a nightmare to work with on the set. He ended up pretty much taking over the editing room and making story changes up until the last minute.Marvel just never invited him back after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShake View Post
    Apparently he was a nightmare to work with on the set. He ended up pretty much taking over the editing room and making story changes up until the last minute.Marvel just never invited him back after that.
    That's fortunate, ruffalo is amazing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis View Post
    That's fortunate, ruffalo is amazing
    Couldn't agree more. The way the Hulk looks now is also a big improvement over the first Incredible Hulk movie. The new one looks like a big green Ruffalo.

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    I thought Norton was good in his role but Ruffalo is clearly much better both as Hulk and Banner.

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