Thread: Brock Osweiler on Denver Broncos: "There is no grudge"

Originally Posted by Northman

Schaub was gone before Matty Ice arrived in Atlanta. At the time of Schaub's departure from Atlanta he was sitting behind Vick still who was their #1 guy. How can you be a Texans fan and not know that?

It must be hard to keep track when you jump from team to team.

Originally Posted by Northman

Schaub was gone before Matty Ice arrived in Atlanta. At the time of Schaub's departure from Atlanta he was sitting behind Vick still who was their #1 guy. How can you be a Texans fan and not know that?

Because I'm not a Falcons fan? That's just as telling though: Long before the dog-fighting crap, Atlanta drafted Schaub in the 3rd round when Vick was just coming into his prime (a year before the first 1000 yd rushing season by ANY QB, in fact.) He was NEVER considered a franchise QB until Bob McNair decided to MAKE him one. As for Flacco: He's so indubitably "elite" there's a running measurement of his quality from "bum" to "elite." He's elite against the Bucs, but who isn't?

On the subject of Brock, our D-line is full of gentlemen that will push his stool in for him.

Schaub was seen as an interesting prospect and Joel ignores several good seasons on his part. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SchaMa00.htm Schaub had several years were he was a good starter, and his implosion came out of nowhere.

In regards to Brockweiller - Go **** yourself.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Schaub was seen as an interesting prospect and Joel ignores several good seasons on his part. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SchaMa00.htm Schaub had several years were he was a good starter, and his implosion came out of nowhere.

In regards to Brockweiller - Go **** yourself.

Agreed.

The reason why the Texans pursued Schaub is because when Vick would be hurt Schaub came in and showed potential.

Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Schaub was seen as an interesting prospect and Joel ignores several good seasons on his part. http://www.pro-football-reference.co...S/SchaMa00.htm Schaub had several years were he was a good starter, and his implosion came out of nowhere.

I'm not ignoring his several good seasons: I just think the fact he had NONE either before OR after Kubiak suggests that Kubiak, not Schaub, was the critical factor. Schaubs abilities didn't get Brian Griese nor Jake Plummer to Pro Bowls: Kubiaks did. Should be really interesting to see how Oz does without him....

Schaubs implosion didn't "come out of nowhere" either: As early as Week 5 of 2011 (Houstons first playoff season) I said Schaub would cost himself AND Kubiak a job if not replaced; he did just that, but TWO YEARS later. The smoking gun for me was when the eventual AFCS Champs had the final possession trailing the hapless Raiders by 5:

4	1:50	1	10	HTX 37	Matt Schaub pass complete short right to Arian Foster for 11 yards (tackle by Jarvis Moss)	25	20
4	1:29	1	10	HTX 48	Matt Schaub sacked by Tommy Kelly for 0 yards. Penalty on Mike Brisiel: Personal Foul (Declined). Replay Assistant challenged the too many players on field ruling, and the play was overturned. Matt Schaub sacked by Tommy Kelly for 0 yards. Penalty on Mike Brisiel: Face Mask (15 Yards), 15 yards, Penalty on Quentin Groves: Defensive 12 On-field (Declined) (no play)	25	20
4	1:22	1	25	HTX 33	Matt Schaub pass complete deep middle to Kevin Walter for 26 yards (tackle by Jerome Boyd)	25	20
4	1:00	1	10	RAI 41	Matt Schaub pass incomplete deep left intended for Jacoby Jones. Penalty on Richard Seymour: Roughing the Passer, 15 yards (no play)	25	20
4	0:54	1	10	RAI 26	Matt Schaub for no gain. Matt Schaub fumbles, recovered by Matt Schaub at OAK-39	25	20
4	0:40	2	23	RAI 39	Matt Schaub pass incomplete short right intended for Arian Foster	25	20
4	0:29	3	23	RAI 39	Matt Schaub pass complete deep right to Joel Dreessen for 34 yards (tackle by Jerome Boyd)	25	20
4	0:08	1	5	RAI 5	Matt Schaub spiked the ball	25	20
4	0:06	2	5	RAI 5	Matt Schaub pass incomplete short left intended for Jacoby Jones is intercepted by Michael Huffat OAK-0	25	20
					End of Regulation

That final play is forever etched in my mind: Schaub takes the snap and rolls slightly left, but everyone's covered, so he takes a step or two forward, surveys the field again, and finds everyone still covered, so he dances a little more (now Huff takes a couple steps of his own from the end line) and, even though he can STILL easily run for the TD since there's NOTHING between him and the goal line, he throws the Int: Game over.

If he'd taken off when he saw everyone covered and NO ONE near the goal line, he makes it easily; even if he hadn't, it wouldn't have taken 6 seconds, it was only 2nd down and they had another time out left. Schaub just flat choked (with good protection AND a solid RB duo) against a BAD team. The writing was on the wall then, and if no one else saw it, there's a reason Kubiak had ALREADY drafted Yates, then went after Keenum in the next offseason.

Too bad McNair never let Kubiak spend more than a 5th round pick and an UDFA spot on upgrading from Schaub; that UDFA's still starting, but Schaub's out of the NFL. I'm sure McNairs eye for QB talent's WAY better now; knock 'em dead, Oz.

Put another way: Since TJ Freakin' Yates beat the Bengals in the playoffs before Schaub did, I doubt Schaub was the (positive) critical factor in Houstons QB equation. No more than he got Griese or Plummer to the Pro Bowl, or spawned the Flaccometer.

Originally Posted by Joel

Because I'm not a Falcons fan? That's just as telling though: Long before the dog-fighting crap, Atlanta drafted Schaub in the 3rd round when Vick was just coming into his prime (a year before the first 1000 yd rushing season by ANY QB, in fact.) He was NEVER considered a franchise QB until Bob McNair decided to MAKE him one. As for Flacco: He's so indubitably "elite" there's a running measurement of his quality from "bum" to "elite." He's elite against the Bucs, but who isn't?

LOL you realize PFTcommenter is satire right? His big joke is the stupid debate over whether Flacco is elite or not. The fact that you are engaging in a big argument over it makes you one of the people he is mocking.

Originally Posted by Joel

That final play is forever etched in my mind: Schaub takes the snap and rolls slightly left, but everyone's covered, so he takes a step or two forward, surveys the field again, and finds everyone still covered, so he dances a little more (now Huff takes a couple steps of his own from the end line) and, even though he can STILL easily run for the TD since there's NOTHING between him and the goal line, he throws the Int: Game over.

Elway did that same exact play in the SB vs the Packers. Sometimes the defender just makes a great play.

To add to my other post, i have personal experience when it comes to that kind of play. In our football championship game in high school we were in a dogfight with the team that we had managed to destroy twice during the year. The game was tied up going into overtime but unlike other schools if a team failed to win the game than it would of ended in a tie. So on our final drive i rolled out to my left and threw the pass to one of my receivers in the endzone. The pass was low but it is still debateable today of whether or not it was too low. It was called a TD and we won but i still remember that play vividly and wonder if i did put it too low to where it hit the ground. For a right handed QB that is one of the hardest plays to make even at the professional level. What might seem like a "easy" choice to run for a TD when you are in the middle of the play it also looks "easy" to throw a dagger to the guy in the endzone. This is why Elway told Griffith when he ran it in for a TD that he didnt trust himself with the pass even though Griffith was wide open. And Elway was actually rolling out to his right which is an easier pass to make rather than going to his left which was intercepted Eugened Robinson of the Pack. Just because Schaub threw the pick does not mean he sucks or isnt a adequate QB. Schaub was never going to be a HOF but he did a fairly good job in Houston before he lost his confidence and folded later in his career. Point is, even the best QB's can make an error like that especially on that kind of pass.

Joel, that was an awful play on his part - but he also made some incredible plays throughout his career as well. That one play does not serve as a microcosm of his career.

To Northman's point - Schaub led the league in passing at one point. Until the blowup at the end the Schaub trade was viewed as being well worth it, and let's be honest, getting good QB for five years is something a lot of franchises would kill for.

Ya know what won me over about Schaub and Flacco? RESULTS.

Apparently RESULTS only matter for Joel when the QB in question is total and complete garbage at literally everything you need a QB to do.

Originally Posted by Jaded

Ya know what won me over about Schaub and Flacco? RESULTS.

Apparently RESULTS only matter for Joel when the QB in question is total and complete garbage at literally everything you need a QB to do.

Joel started distancing himself from Tebow during the playoff run so he can claim he was always right about the Manning era.

Originally Posted by Northman

Elway did that same exact play in the SB vs the Packers. Sometimes the defender just makes a great play.

No, he didn't: Elways only SB XXXII Int was a deep kill shot ahead by 7. It was a calculated and worthwhile risk for a two-score lead at the start of the SBs second half, especially since we were barely across midfield after having just forced a GB turnover, so the Int cost us nada: It was the same as a punt, and we still led by a TD. When we WERE down by the goal line, what did Elway do BOTH times everyone was covered?

Run for a TD the first time, then run for a 1st down to set up a TD the second. That would've won Houstons game, but Schaub just danced around in front of a wide open goal line forever before finally throwing an Int. And that Int didn't net 20 yds of field position for team up a TD: It LOST THE GAME on 2nd and G. He wasn't throwing on the run either: He'd rolled out, then STOPPED; 10 seconds of happy feet=/=throwing on the run. He set himself just fine: He just missed a 10 yd pass.

Are we seriously comparing Schaub to Elway now? Because he's either Tebow quality or Elway quality, there's NO other options?

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Joel started distancing himself from Tebow during the playoff run so he can claim he was always right about the Manning era.

Tebow might (or might not) have been elite with a few years of intensive round the clock QB coaching, but that ship sailed in 2012, 2013 at the latest. All the inborn physical talent was there, but none of the acquired developed skill. Debating what might've been THREE YEARS after it ceased to be anything but a hypothetical is pointless. So I'll leave ya'll to it.

Just don't try convincing me Matt Schaub was a decent QB: He was crap before Kubes (hence Atlanta drafted him in the 3rd, then dumped him) and crap after Kubes. And since the ONLY starting QB Kubiak's EVER had who DIDN'T make the Pro Bowl was (ironically) Manning on his last legs, that strongly suggests Schaub was just along for the ride during his couple years of apparent greatness. His eliteness is right up there with Brian Griese and Jake Plummer.