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Thread: Brock Osweiler hopes 2015 play keeps him in Broncos' future plans

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post

    Because other teams won't be doing that. No player WANTS this "incentive laden" contracts, as its purely unfair in favor of the NFL owners. They love it, and would LOVE to pay everyone on a "commission." But just offering Brock 10 million isn't going to sound great if another team is offering him 14. A Twelve million dollar difference (over 3 years) is hard to make up with the next big contract.

    If you don't sign Oz, then who? What other, capable, QB is going to be better AND cheaper?
    But how many GM will take a shot on a long term (over 3 years) deal on QB with 6 starts? It's a huge risk that could cripple a team. 2-3 yr deal with good money will be most likely. Even if some team comes in big it will be 2-3 yr. What do you mean incentive laden? Not many contracts have 50% or more guarentees. Elway has front loaded the contracts for ward, talib, and ware to guarentee salary for first few years. I said before $45 million for 3 years with $20 million guarentees is a good contract. Average $15 million a year but depends on guarentees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTerror218 View Post
    But how many GM will take a shot on a long term (over 3 years) deal on QB with 6 starts? It's a huge risk that could cripple a team. 2-3 yr deal with good money will be most likely. Even if some team comes in big it will be 2-3 yr. What do you mean incentive laden? Not many contracts have 50% or more guarentees. Elway has front loaded the contracts for ward, talib, and ware to guarentee salary for first few years. I said before $45 million for 3 years with $20 million guarentees is a good contract. Average $15 million a year but depends on guarentees.
    If this is the contract you are suggesting/believing, then I'm right on board with that. I th ink that is perfect, actually. It was the 'give him 10 million with incentives to make more" contracts that aren't reasonable.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    In 2012 Matt Flynn got a 3 year/ $20.5 million dollar deal with 9 in guarantees and incentives that could have pushed it to $26 million, all based off of a handful of games. I could see Brock getting an offer of about 8 million annually, maybe 10. The Flynn thing fell flat immediately, which makes other teams nervous about paying big bucks for QBs who didn't have to do much on stacked teams.

    Kubiak has also traded for somebody else's backup QB to be his long-term starter before. Hell, Kubes could just sign Chase Daniel if Oz wants too much or let Siemian do it with a vet backup on hand for downside relief. The threat of being able to put just about anyone else at the helm is real in the case. "I just need a game manager, Oz, so until you prove you're more than that that's all I'll be paying for. Manning's corpse won us a superbowl by being just slightly more effective than a cardboard cutout. Would you like to win one next time, or do you want to go play for the Rams or the Browns who haven't done anything interesting since before you hit puberty?"

    I expect Brock to be back, and I don't think that precludes us from taking a QB somewhere in this draft either. Somebody like Kevin Hogan seems right up our alley if he's there late. Take him in the 5th, turn him into Brady.

    And until then, give Brock his shot with with what we've got, as long as he understands he's not gonna break the bank on this shorter deal - but could on the next one if he nails his chance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    If this is the contract you are suggesting/believing, then I'm right on board with that. I th ink that is perfect, actually. It was the 'give him 10 million with incentives to make more" contracts that aren't reasonable.
    Like I said, Matt Flynn was in this sort of predicament and came out with a 3/20 deal with those dreaded incentives. Inflation bumps that to 10 mil or so a season, but I would be surprised if we were more than 3/35 into Ozweiler. We'll see though.
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    ******* hell... did you just suggest Chase Daniels???????? FRaking christ........
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    ******* hell... did you just suggest Chase Daniels???????? FRaking christ........
    LOL I didn't suggest him so much as suggest that Kubes could use a guy like that as a bargaining chip. Oz's agent can say, "we'll go somewhere else unless you pay us huge sums" while Kubiak can come back with, "Go for it - any QB would be thrilled to play here, and if I can get him a better OL than you'll have if I pay you what you want then we're better off."

    Then Brock drops his asking price and we're good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    In 2012 Matt Flynn got a 3 year/ $20.5 million dollar deal with 9 in guarantees and incentives that could have pushed it to $26 million, all based off of a handful of games. I could see Brock getting an offer of about 8 million annually, maybe 10. The Flynn thing fell flat immediately, which makes other teams nervous about paying big bucks for QBs who didn't have to do much on stacked teams.

    Kubiak has also traded for somebody else's backup QB to be his long-term starter before. Hell, Kubes could just sign Chase Daniel if Oz wants too much or let Siemian do it with a vet backup on hand for downside relief. The threat of being able to put just about anyone else at the helm is real in the case. "I just need a game manager, Oz, so until you prove you're more than that that's all I'll be paying for. Manning's corpse won us a superbowl by being just slightly more effective than a cardboard cutout. Would you like to win one next time, or do you want to go play for the Rams or the Browns who haven't done anything interesting since before you hit puberty?"

    I expect Brock to be back, and I don't think that precludes us from taking a QB somewhere in this draft either. Somebody like Kevin Hogan seems right up our alley if he's there late. Take him in the 5th, turn him into Brady.

    And until then, give Brock his shot with with what we've got, as long as he understands he's not gonna break the bank on this shorter deal - but could on the next one if he nails his chance.
    I will state this almost as a fact. Elway will not let a player like Chase Daniels or casey Keenum be the starting QB. Elway know how important the position is and that is why he always brings in the top QBS for work outside every year. There is a reason he said he'll no the tebow and went after Manning.

    The worst Elway would do is draft a early round QB with intention to start.

    Other QBS may come in the fight for a back up position. But retreads and has been solid won't be starting for Broncos unless a starter goes down. Elway knows the value of the position. Kubiak does not have personal control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    LOL I didn't suggest him so much as suggest that Kubes could use a guy like that as a bargaining chip. Oz's agent can say, "we'll go somewhere else unless you pay us huge sums" while Kubiak can come back with, "Go for it - any QB would be thrilled to play here, and if I can get him a better OL than you'll have if I pay you what you want then we're better off."

    Then Brock drops his asking price and we're good.
    hah.. the agent would ...and Brock would sign for the Jets, and then we'd be stuck, signing Keenum because he used to work with Kubiak. Gag
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Because other teams won't be doing that. No player WANTS this "incentive laden" contracts, as its purely unfair in favor of the NFL owners. Owners love it, and would LOVE to pay everyone on a "commission" basis. But just offering Brock 10 million isn't going to sound great if another team is offering him 14. A Twelve million dollar difference (over 3 years) is hard to make up with the next big contract.

    If you don't sign Oz, then who? What other, capable, QB is going to be better AND cheaper?
    It won't be an incentive based contract. Elway knows he going to make a fair offer one that isn't top tier. I don't think players mind incentives based on performance as long as they are reasonable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    Kubiak has also traded for somebody else's backup QB to be his long-term starter before.
    Kubiak didn't make that trade, McNair did: The year Kubiak won Houstons first playoff game, he was already trying like Hell to upgrade Schaub before he got BOTH of them fired. McNair wouldn't let him use anything better than a 5th rounder on a QB, but that 5th round rookie started and won the franchises first playoff game, and he's STILL the best QB on their roster 4 years later. But once Schaub was healthy he regained his job, and Kubiak had to hold his breath hoping no one drafted the kid he liked from the University of Houston, because McNair wouldn't even let him spend a FINAL round pick on him.

    Kubiak will get "his" guy sooner or later, one way or the other, whether Oz takes a reasonable offer or shoots for the moon elsewhere. And with Wades D plus Dennisons line, Kubiaks guy will win us MANY games: Since he won a playoff game with a 5th round rookie TJ Yates and turned a rookie UDFA into a good enough QB to get a starting job ANYWHERE (even Los Angeles) imagine what he can do when his GM lets him pick a QB before the 5th round.

    Odds are our guy going forward will be Oz, and the odds are against him, but no more than for any new QB (and less so than many.) Again, if anyone can make him an All Pro, it's Kubiak: He's never had a starting QB who DIDN'T make at least one Pro Bowl. Anyone think that was because Plummer, Schaub or Griese were elite?
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
    It won't be an incentive based contract. Elway knows he going to make a fair offer one that isn't top tier. I don't think players mind incentives based on performance as long as they are reasonable.
    Agreed to this. I don't think you can try to sign an UFA with a "Trial contract" (as a few have mentioned) simply by offering a big raise and "Incentives" to make it a BIG contract. "Sign him for 10 and put a bunch of incentives in there" ..... sigh.

    But if the guaranteed contract and money is fair, with incentives that can be reached for bonues.... sure. However, we have to understand that many of those "reachable" incentives, count against our cap. So it's not like it's necessarily a cap saver to offer them. Unless we offer bonuses to "unlikely reached" incentives, which that cap money counts against the following year's cap. But then, why would a player say "oh yeah, that's part of my salary" on "unlikely reached" bonuses?
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Odds are our guy going forward will be Oz, and the odds are against him, but no more than for any new QB (and less so than many.) Again, if anyone can make him an All Pro, it's Kubiak: He's never had a starting QB who DIDN'T make at least one Pro Bowl. Anyone think that was because Plummer, Schaub or Griese were elite?
    Weird tht Shanahan was coaching 2 of those 3, and then add in Cutler and RGIII with Shanahan as well. Who else does Kube's have? I know you are a big believer, but it seems you try to boost too much that it takes away from the validity.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    At the same time, who do you sign to be a "reasonable" cap number that isn't a detriment to this team? There are a LOT of "cap friendly" QBs in the NFL...but they suck.

    I don't know what you consider to be a "cap friendly" number...but if you don't think he'll sign for somewhere around 15mill per year, I think your expectations are too much.

    Brock showed he had a good understanding of reading defenses, and able to take control of this offense. Kept a cool head, and very good about not turning the ball over. He has a strong arm, and is comfortable with everyone in the locker room after learning from one of the greatest in teh game. Hard to say we can just "sign some vet" and try to ride this defense again....as we've seen other teams fail with that exact plan.
    Oz isn't your typical "cap friendly" QB, who are normally run out of his previous town do to poor job performance. He's spent 4 years sitting behind a HoFer, now he just needs to develop more of the skills he's been shown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FanInAZ View Post

    Oz isn't your typical "cap friendly" QB, who are normally run out of his previous town do to poor job performance. He's spent 4 years sitting behind a HoFer, now he just needs to develop more of the skills he's been shown.
    He has learned how to be a good and doing the film study. Time to put it to use. One thing I liked was how he did not make dumb mistakes passing or confused by defenses.

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