Thread: Broncos Gameday Thread *Super Bowl 50 Edition*: Broncos vs Panthers 02/07/16

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

This is from the rulebook, and the way I interpret this, he made a good catch:



I bolded what I think is the key line. From what I can tell, he never lost control of the ball before the tip hit the ground. Given this, I'd rule it a catch. Where is spike!?

You're focussing on the wrong part of that sentence. Here's the part that applies: "If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone."

The ball obviously touched the ground, and then moved/he lost control momentarily.

Now, all that being said, my nuanced response based on watching that play numerous times is this:

1. Cotchery is going to the ground during the catch, which brings these ground/control issues into play.

2. The ball obviously contacts the ground.

3. Immediately after contacting the ground the ball moves, and appears momentarily out of Cotchery's control.

So, the call not to overturn the original incomplete is defensible, and most likely correct.

However:

4. I think, from watching this a zillion times, the ball moves not because it contacts the ground, but because Stewart's helmet hits Cotchery's hand and keeps his hand from rolling with the rest of his body. So, I believe the ball doesn't move due to contact with the ground, but due to Stewart's contact with Cotchery's hand. And after that Cotchery gains control again, and the ball never touched the ground again.

So, in conclusion, this might have been a catch. I think that if it had been ruled a catch initially, that it likely would not have been overturned either.

The determining question, imo, is whether the ground caused it to move, or Stewart's helmet. Since those two things happen virtually simultaneously, it might actually be a combination of the two (which would make it incomplete).

This is a play that there really is no clear-cut "correct" call. Based on the rules as written, a good faith argument can be made either way, and the conclusion depends on how much weight the observer puts on what caused the ball to move, either the ground or Stewart's helmet.

I think regardless of our interpretation we can all agree Mike Carey is a GD idiot and I don't understand why he continues to deliver his interpretations with such certainty when a.) he is wrong so often and b.) there is very clearly room for disagreement.

Originally Posted by Buff

I think regardless of our interpretation we can all agree Mike Carey is a GD idiot and I don't understand why he continues to deliver his interpretations with such certainty when a.) he is wrong so often and b.) there is very clearly room for disagreement.

I don't think I've ever see him be right on one that was not just blatantly obvious to begin with.

Yeah.. surely they are going to stop paying this guy to say "its a good call" all the time. His input has meant about zero for the enjoyment of watching the game.

From FiveThirtyEight - Newton never had a chance:

Days like Sunday didn’t happen to Newton very often this season. Through the league championship, he was pressured 179 times in 654 dropbacks, or 27.4 percent. (His QBR on those plays was 15.6.) Going by pressures per dropback, the Panthers played only four top-10 pressure defenses this season. During the regular season, the Texans, Seahawks and Colts each played the Panthers tight and held Cam under 50 QBR (and under 80 in the traditional passer rating), but the Panthers defense and general mediocrity of those teams carried Carolina on through. In the divisional round rematch against the Seahawks, defensive end Cliff Avril — one of Seattle’s best pass rushers — left the game in the second quarter and didn’t return. The Seahawks pressured Cam just twice all game. The Cardinals brought pressure six times in the conference championship, a season-low for them.

This may be compelling evidence that Carolina simply stumbled in the big one, having just clubbed the second- and third-best pressure defenses in back-to-back playoff games. But Seattle and Arizona are both hugely different defenses from Denver. The Seahawks are a low-blitz team that relies on a killer secondary. The Cardinals also relied more on coverage before free safety Tyrann Mathieu went down for the year, but they also leaned heavily on blitz packages; their one-on-one pass-rushing was so anemic that 35-year-old Dwight Freeney led the team with eight sacks — and no other Cardinal had more than five.

As you saw Sunday, that is not at all how the Broncos play defense.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/...-had-a-chance/

We tried telling everybody about us ... looks like they found out on Sunday.

Edit: I got down to the bottom of the article and there are some great quotes here:

This works the other way around as well. Cam’s numbers aren’t getting any prettier no matter how you slice them. But at least twice Sunday he carried a defender on his back as he wound up and got a throw off toward the sticks — incomplete pass, but not a sack. They were hand-to-God some of the most impressive feats of strength I’ve witnessed. There aren’t stats for that, at least not in the ESPN database, as there aren’t any for something like whispering a third-quarter pass 30 yards in the air, over the shoulder of the defender and into Jerricho Cotchery’s breadbasket at the 5-yard line, only for the defender — a linebacker sprinting 25 yards downfield — to close at the last second and knock it out. It was just Cotchery’s third drop of the season; it also happened to be his third drop of the game. The streaking ‘backer was Miller, naturally, who was named the game’s MVP.

After the game, receiver Devin Funchess was one of the few Panthers to serve up more than platitudes — if just barely — about preparing for Miller and the rest of Denver’s defense. “You can’t do that in practice,” he said, asked about preparing for the rush versus actually having to play against it. “Our guys can’t mimic that.”

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Maybe a longer clip of the play shows more, but from the link posted above, he was not bobbling it at any point before the nose touched the ground. From what I can see, he had solid control, the tip hit the ground while in his control, which is fine, then as he rolled over he started to bobble it, but it never hit the ground again. To me, that's a catch.

I get why they didn't overturn it, because it takes a LOT to overturn what was called on the field, but I think this is one of those that had it been called a catch, they would have stayed with it as well.

I agree with this: It WAS too close to change ANY call—whichever way that call went. That said, it looked to me like the ground made the ball tip sideways a bit.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Eh, I think people are overblowing the Eli reaction shot. At the time, the game was not 100% over IMO. If anyone knows about Super Bowls being won in crazy, late game fashion, it's Eli Manning. I just think he didn't want to start celebrating until it was 100% in the bag.

Exactly my take seeing it live, and since.

IMO the ball touched the ground and he the bobbled it. Makes no difference but in my mind that's no catch.

I didn't think it was a catch either, but I may be a little biased.

Some interesting stats about our amazing D


total pressures for the season

Originally Posted by Davii

Still not if he bobbled it AFTER it touched the ground.

Right. As I understand it though, the fact that he never had control before the ball touched the ground, even if he did establish contact afterward, not having control before negates the catch.

Originally Posted by slim

I didn't think it was a catch either, but I may be a little biased.

I know I'm biased but it still didn't look like a catch to me.

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- Carolina Panthers quarterback Cam Newton admitted he's a "sore loser'' in defending how he handled himself with the media after Sunday's loss to Denver in Super Bowl 50.

The newly crowned league MVP walked out on reporters after answering only a handful of questions, mostly with short answers, following the 24-10 loss. He did so while wearing the hood of a black hoodie pulled over his head.

"I've been on record to say I'm a sore loser,'' Newton said Tuesday as players cleaned out their lockers. "Who likes to lose? You show me a good loser and I'm going to show you a loser. It's not a popularity contest. I'm here to win football games.''

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14...king-reporters