Thread: Von Miller Wants to Be Highest Paid Defensive Player

Originally Posted by Cugel

I think the decision not to re-sign Brock Osweiler earlier had more to do with uncertainty about whether Peyton Manning would play out his contract or not. They could have signed Brock for around $5 M a year prior to this season - which would be a total bargain right now.

This is dreaming. Why would Brock have signed for 5 million a year when he knew his contract was coming to an end and he would be able to go to a team needing a starting QB? Considering Manning's age and point of is career, the ONLY way he signs that contract is if there is a HUGE raise if he starts more than 6 games, and that bonus is 10million. Players aren't stupid, and their agents certainly aren't.

Originally Posted by Joel

From that list: McManus, Marshall, restructure Clady to the stated $5 mil or wish him well, Paradis, probably Hillman whether I like it or not, and hopefully CJ. I'd like Davis if he's cheap, and since he was ALREADY cheap and did NOTHING to change that it seems possible; I'd be perfectly happy though if he prices himself out of our market by going off in the SB. When you break it down like that, it's really not horrible once Manning's $19 mil and half of Cladys $10 mil comes off the books.

We obviously still need to shore up the line, especially if Garcia can't improve his protection and Sambrailo doesn't develop to starting level by the end of camp. I think Stewart may be a FA, too, btw, but am not sure. But we should be able to do all that, a deal for Miller and tag Oz (or vice versa) and probably even keep Trevathan into the bargain. It's not the disaster some have made it out to be, or at least doesn't have to be.

Darian Stewart is still under contract and is due $2 M next year.

There is no doubt they will keep Von Miller. The problem is timing. I doubt his agent will allow Miller to sign a contract prior to the start of FA, because their leverage will be more if he starts getting contract offers like Ndamukong Suh - 6 years, 114 M or something.

To prevent that the Broncos will have to franchise him, then negotiate something over the summer - in short just what they did with D.T. this off-season.

Manning's under contract for $19 M next year, and it will cost them $2 M to buy out the last year of his contract. But, it's not $17 M in savings, because they were never going to pay him anything like even the $15 M he got this year.

Remember that the salary cap isn't actually budgeted right now and won't be before they announce the new cap figure sometime this August. So, at this point the teams aren't under the cap for 2016, hence Manning's "savings" aren't real. In the unlikely event he came back they'd renegotiate him down below the $15 M he made this past year.

Cugel you lost me when you said Denver "desperately needs to upgrade" the center position. Paradis has been solid this year and quietly been the best player on the line all year.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

This is dreaming. Why would Brock have signed for 5 million a year when he knew his contract was coming to an end and he would be able to go to a team needing a starting QB? Considering Manning's age and point of is career, the ONLY way he signs that contract is if there is a HUGE raise if he starts more than 6 games, and that bonus is 10million. Players aren't stupid, and their agents certainly aren't.

There was considerable discussion about this by NFL personnel people in the off-season, so it's not "dreaming."

Remember the facts:

#1 - Peyton had ZERO intention of allowing Brock to have 1 snap during any game this season. He got hurt, tried to play and couldn't and then they went to Brock.

So if Manning stayed healthy and was reasonably effective neither the Broncos nor anybody else would have paid $12-15 M a year to a QB with ZERO NFL starting experience.

His value would be totally speculative and all teams would have seen of him would be a few meaningless pre-season games, played mostly against guys who are installing drywall right now. You don't pay $10 M a year to a QB with no experience.

Now, however he's started 9 games and the team won 6 of them. There's a lot of film on him and it's pretty clear he's at least an average QB.

There are about 15 teams without even an average QB and probably 10-12 that might consider signing him as their starter.

As for Manning, if he'd had a good year in the Kubiak system, the Broncos would certainly want him back, and he would have considered playing out his contract. In 2014 before he got hurt, he said indignantly "of course" he anticipated playing out his contract. All that changed after he struggled and the team lost to the Colts and he had to re-consider.

After being sidelined for 9 games this year and throwing 17 picks, there's no way he's coming back.

Originally Posted by SR

Cugel you lost me when you said Denver "desperately needs to upgrade" the center position. Paradis has been solid this year and quietly been the best player on the line all year.

Paradis is considered "light" for a C and teams have found they can bull-rush him right into the backfield. None of the Broncos OL consistently gets to the second level and all too often RBs are stuffed 2 yards in the backfield.

Can he beef up and improve his technique? I have no idea, but I want to see an upgrade at his position, definitely.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Paradis is considered "light" for a C and teams have found they can bull-rush him right into the backfield. None of the Broncos OL consistently gets to the second level and all too often RBs are stuffed 2 yards in the backfield. Can he beef up and improve his technique? I have no idea, but I want to see an upgrade at his position, definitely.

He's a first year starter? How about develop him? Y'know, the whole draft your future thing?

I always have to disagree with Cugel it is just what it is, maybe because of his occupation.

Paradis is staying in denver long term, 1st yr starting and has been solid. Bull Rushing have impacted him but that is coachable. Centers are always the smallest OL.

Another notes Miller will most likely fall in line with other big names like Watt and sign a contract before FA. He could enjoy a bidding war but he is classier then that. He will sit with Elway and work out a deal right after SB. That is guarenteed what Elway will do.

From there he will prob start to work up offers for other big name FA they wish to keep. Oz will prob be the next contract he is direct contact with.

Elway always seems to make offers to FA before FA starts and if they do not work with him or sign then he let's them walk. But I think you will see him start to sign him own FA more often then looking for big name FA.

With Clady willing to redo contract and Sambrailo coming back as well. Big boost to OL. I expect to see a DE/OL in first 2 rounds unless a player rated high drops like Ray.

Originally Posted by Cugel

There was considerable discussion about this by NFL personnel people in the off-season, so it's not "dreaming."

By whom, message board posters? I would bet my life that there wasn't a single SERIOUS discussion about this with anyone that actually was in the know, and/or had anything that actually had to do with the Broncos or Brock.

It's absolutely absurd, and Brock would have been stupid to sign that contract. He could/would get that nearly anywhere, WHILE having a chance to compete for a starting job. As I said, he could/would sign a contract that would BUMP his salary to starting rate if/when he would win the starting job at said location.

Remember the facts:

I read your 'facts' and "speculations" (that you are calling facts)...and NONE point to you being accurate on your believing that would could have signed Brock to an extension for 5 million a year when he would be the starter. None. It's hope and dreams and the "if we only could have" thinking that derives from deals done on Madden football games.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

By whom, message board posters? I would bet my life that there wasn't a single SERIOUS discussion about this with anyone that actually was in the know, and/or had anything that actually had to do with the Broncos or Brock.

It's absolutely absurd, and Brock would have been stupid to sign that contract. He could/would get that nearly anywhere, WHILE having a chance to compete for a starting job. As I said, he could/would sign a contract that would BUMP his salary to starting rate if/when he would win the starting job at said location.

I read your 'facts' and "speculations" (that you are calling facts)...and NONE point to you being accurate on your believing that would could have signed Brock to an extension for 5 million a year when he would be the starter. None. It's hope and dreams and the "if we only could have" thinking that derives from deals done on Madden football games.

Don't be ridiculous. All this was discussed ENDLESSLY, for tens of hours on sports talk radio this past summer. For months. Interviews with GMs from other teams mostly like Bill Polian, but also former agents, etc.

Brock AFTER he has proven himself is NOT like Brock with ZERO NFL starts.

I have no idea why this is so hard for you to grasp. They didn't offer him a contract. There were no negotiations. To say he'd be stupid to sign?

This just shows you know nothing about agency. What the player risks if he refuses to negotiate is normally the possibility he may be injured in his final season and lose his bargaining position.

But, proven results (game film) is what determines value. How would Brock Osweiler's position improve if he never took the field?

As an NFL GM are you going to commit $10 M a year to a guy with ZERO starts? How are you supposed to gauge his ability? You're going to commit your organization to sign a guy completely unproven and give him a multi-year guaranteed contract for $20+ million?

Now THAT would be insane!

He might not have signed, but he certainly wouldn't get a much better contract anywhere else because he had proven nothing.

NOW he will of course. Now, he's getting over $10-12 M a year and may well command a large signing bonus as well. No surprise there. He proved himself on the field.

Originally Posted by SR

He's a first year starter? How about develop him? Y'know, the whole draft your future thing?

I won't be at all surprised if they keep Paradis or even start him next year.

I wanted them to sign a really GOOD RT in FA this past winter and it didn't happen.

So, you could easily be right.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Don't be ridiculous. All this was discussed ENDLESSLY, for tens of hours on sports talk radio this past summer. For months. Interviews with GMs from other teams mostly like Bill Polian, but also former agents, etc.

Brock AFTER he has proven himself is NOT like Brock with ZERO NFL starts.

I have no idea why this is so hard for you to grasp. They didn't offer him a contract. There were no negotiations. To say he'd be stupid to sign?

This just shows you know nothing about agency. What the player risks if he refuses to negotiate is normally the possibility he may be injured in his final season and lose his bargaining position.

But, proven results (game film) is what determines value. How would Brock Osweiler's position improve if he never took the field?

As an NFL GM are you going to commit $10 M a year to a guy with ZERO starts?

Now THAT would be insane!

I don't know what is so hard to grasp.
I listen to a LOT of sports radio, and NEVER have I heard this discussion being talked about "ENDLESSLY" with anyone prior to this season.

But you aren't listening.. AT ALL... and are laughing at something you don't seem to grasp, or refusing to grasp. Either way, you are looking pretty foolish.

The idea that you think it would have "simply" been "easy" to give Brock a 5 million dollar a year contract extension prior to this year, and that he would ahve HAPPILY have signed for an extended period at that rate... KNOWING that Manning was at the VERY twilight of his career, is ABSOLUTELY stupid. PERIOD. Its STUPID to believe in.

WHY would he, or his agent, agree to sign a multi-year contract at 5 million dollars knowing that the Broncos would be having to come to a decision within the year? You don't think they saw the same things EVERYONE else saw at the end of last season? You don't think they were amongst everyone at practice seeing Manning deteriate before our eyes? You thinkt hat we simply would have had a starting QB at 5 million dollars when Brock KNEW he would be going UFA at the end of this season when the Broncos didn't have another 'real' option on the roster?

WHat I said, and what you IGNORED, is that the ONLY way he would sign a 5 million dollar deal is if there would be a BONUS in that contract if he started 6 or more games. Giving him STARTING money. Now you can' LAUGH all you want, but how many starting QBs are in the NFL for 5 million a year on their second contract in the NFL? You don't think it was WELL known by everyone knew that Manning is/was on his last legs? WHY ON EARTH would Brock sign a multi-year deal at 5 million dollars a year when he could VERY easily roam the teams in the NFL looking for a starting QB? Now you can say "who's going to sign a guy to 10 million with no starts?" THAT is where you weren't listening/reading, and letting your inflated ego get in teh way.

What I said was, if he traveled to a team like... Buffalo was last year... a team that didn't really have a starting QB but was/is willing to give the QBs in camp a fighting chance for the start... then he could have THAT contract give a bonus if the starting job was won or if he started more than 6 games. See how this works? See how guys don't simply sign away their future to some ridiculous prices PURELY because some ego-maniac fan thinks that would have been a BRILLIANT idea? Showing us you know nothing about agency.

I mean, lets sign all our rookes to 10 year contracts at 2 million a year! That way, even if the bad ones leave, we are still saving money!! Who wouldn't sign that deal, right?

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Personally, I think Elway made his decision already when he extended Wolfe and not Jackson.

I agree. Someone has commented awhile that Elway had said he could only re-sign one of them.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I won't be at all surprised if they keep Paradis or even start him next year.

I wanted them to sign a really GOOD RT in FA this past winter and it didn't happen.

So, you could easily be right.

They drafted Sambrailo to be right book end to Clady instead. 2nd round pick is a good investment for a RT.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I won't be at all surprised if they keep Paradis or even start him next year. I wanted them to sign a really GOOD RT in FA this past winter and it didn't happen. So, you could easily be right.

Well don't be surprised because he will be starting at center next year. Denver has two constants on their line right now; Vasquez and Paradis. The rest are variables. Max Garcia will start at one of the G spots (hey-o) next season. Clady may or may not be back. One open guard spot, and RT. So there are only two guys you can take to the bank.

Von just got done speaking on the NFL Network. He was ask about free agency. He said something like John Elway is a great General Manager, and I have good people on my side. He then said something like - regardless what the press's thinking is on it, it will be very peaceful.


Jeff Legwold ESPN Staff Writer

Broncos linebacker Von Miller on his impending free agency: "It's going to be a peaceful thing."