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Thread: Roger Goodell is a dick.

  1. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by tripp View Post
    I don't know what a catch is anymore after watching Odell Beckham's TD ruled incomplete.
    Don't feel bad, man: NO ONE does, including/especially the guys responsible for telling the rest of us.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

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    I'm beyond thinking it's just incompetence.
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  3. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    I'm beyond thinking it's just incompetence.
    Of course not: It's marketing. Really BAD marketing, but the NFL seems to have cornered the bad marketing market. I know, I know: It's the nations most popular and worlds most profitable sport; it HAS been for decades. The question's whether the gap's getting wider or narrower, and the systematic, pathetically transparent, efforts to boost ratings and revenue strongly suggest an answer. Passing is to the NFL what chase scenes are to (other) entertainment media, but flat tires on the getaway car aren't suspenseful.
    Last edited by Joel; 11-26-2015 at 11:46 AM.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzone View Post
    Ok, so the average NFL ref salary is around $180,000. Thats pretty good, but is it enough to keep someone from taking 10 times that amount to influence a game
    wait... so you are suggesting the refs are either being paid off or setting bets themselves, in HOPES that the ref can influence the game?? come on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joel View Post
    Of course not: It's marketing. Really BAD marketing, but the NFL seems to have cornered the bad marketing market. I know, I know: It's the nations most popular and worlds most popular sport; it HAS been for decades. The question's whether the gap's getting wider or narrower, and the systematic, pathetically transparent, efforts to boost ratings and revenue strongly suggest an answer. Passing is to the NFL what chase scenes are to (other) entertainment media, but flat tires on the getaway car aren't suspenseful.
    That too, but not what I meant, I don't think the bad officiating we see is simply officials making/missing bad calls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenBronx View Post
    You don't think that's possible or has never happened?
    Yes, was just asking the question if a Tim Donaghy type scandal could ever be possible in football. There is so much money now being bet on NFL games. A rookie NFL ref makes $78,000 a year. Thats not much. If there is any truth to the notion that every man has a price. I am sure there is tight security, but that NBA scandal has to make you wonder. Corruption happens. Greed makes people do outrageous things. In a dark corner of a bar, over a few drinks. With so many nuances on every play of football and so many shades of gray in the rule book, if a ref wanted to go rogue probably wouldnt be too difficult.

  7. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    That too, but not what I meant, I don't think the bad officiating we see is simply officials making/missing bad calls.
    It's really hard to be sure, because there multiple explanations are possible, few mutually exclusive, and most hard to isolate. For example:

    I've felt for a while that many refs give bad teams more breaks and good teams fewer, because blow outs are bad for ratings (and the NFLs had enough blow out SBs to be keenly aware of that.) But it could be sub/conscious pity instead or in addition, or a sense good teams shouldn't need breaks, while bad ones do. But how could we check that basic supposition? Not by comparing penalties to records, because part of what makes bad/good un/successful teams just that is screwing up less/more than most.

    What I do know is it's not Vegas, because Vegas couldn't care less who wins as long as everyone BETS both sides equally. Which actually is another argument for the above policy of contrived rather than inherent parity, and against outright fixing favoritism. Ultimately, actual fixing is as bad for Vegas as for the NFL, and for the same reason: People won't invest money in outcomes knowing they're predetermined (except in wrestling and other theater, where everyone knows they're just paying for a show.)
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

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    I don't think it's Vegas or pity, it's the NFL controlling the outcome.
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  9. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    I don't think it's Vegas or pity, it's the NFL controlling the outcome.
    Well, whether it's the NFL or Vegas, the likely motive, intent and effect are the same. Sadly, the NFL seems intent on throwing good money after bad, and currently has plenty to spare. But as a Houstonian born just a few years after the US landed on the moon and old enough to have witnessed The Comeback, I can attest there's no such thing as an insurmountable lead. This, after all, is the sport that coined the phrase about teams that "never lost, just ran out of time."
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  10. #25
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    I would be shocked if they ever found an official purposely trying to influence a game. I have probably told this story before, but every official has a pre-snap routine (verifying down and distance, checking your keys, etc.) One of the things I do before every down is remind myself who has the ball. I get so focused on my job that it's necessary. Early on in my career there were times when there was a long pass down the field and once it was caught I wasn't sure if it was a catch or interception. Now, I would never claim to be on an NFL official's level, but as fast and complex as the game is I just don't see a guy being able to process information that quickly. Besides, I truly believe that those guys have tremendous integrity and have worked very hard to get to the top of their field. They wouldn't throw it away.
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  12. #26
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    The officials never officiate both teams in a game consistently anymore and the reasons given feel far more like excuses now.
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    So what's the end game to this? What conspiracy is this constant moaning about referees ending with?

    Sorry if I think this whole thing is utterly ridiculous, but what are people implying by these complaints?

    Because the ironic thing is if there is a conspiracy, it's not working out for the so-called perpetrators. Denver won both its games where the penalties were lop-sided. Chicago won tonight.

    IN terms of the Broncos, that defense is wildly undisciplined and the offensive line is terrible. Maybe they should do a better job of not drawing penalties?
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

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  14. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by spikerman View Post
    I would be shocked if they ever found an official purposely trying to influence a game. I have probably told this story before, but every official has a pre-snap routine (verifying down and distance, checking your keys, etc.) One of the things I do before every down is remind myself who has the ball. I get so focused on my job that it's necessary. Early on in my career there were times when there was a long pass down the field and once it was caught I wasn't sure if it was a catch or interception. Now, I would never claim to be on an NFL official's level, but as fast and complex as the game is I just don't see a guy being able to process information that quickly. Besides, I truly believe that those guys have tremendous integrity and have worked very hard to get to the top of their field. They wouldn't throw it away.
    No disrespect intended, but the gap between your level and theirs is much smaller for refs than for players.

    I bet you've had a few hotdog punks try to "educate" you on rules you've been studying and enforcing longer than they've been alive; now imagine how that would feel if they made 100X your salary and didn't hesitate to declare that reduced you to merely one of their accessories with no more (or even less) value and importance than their jock straps. Then imagine someone shoved a duffel full of hundred dollars bill in your face just to look the other way once or twice the next time one of those guys was on the field.

    It's not that NFL refs aren't professionals (well, not SOLELY that) who don't respect and love the game, but the positive and negative leverage that can be applied to people in their position. One reason salaries for making a living by playing a game half the year have risen so much is to reduce the temptation of huge illegal offers to throw games and make it a negative financial proposition for players whose careers would end if caught. But refs don't get paid like that.

    I've always had the deepest respect for refs who excel at the difficult job of mastering and applying all NFL rules to real-time situations often difficult to fully observe, especially those who can clearly and thoroughly explain it on the stadium mic: BOTH those guys are awesome; it's a shame they can only do two games/week. But all people are fallible, and that definitely includes morally. I'm not saying fixing's systemic or common, but declaring it impossible is as implausible as declaring it the norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaded View Post
    The officials never officiate both teams in a game consistently anymore and the reasons given feel far more like excuses now.
    ^^THAT^^ I could and usually did forgive the ol' "blow one down there, blow one down here" bit because we're all fallible humans, and, even absent deliberate attempts to "make up" for belatedly recognized errors, it pretty much evened out over the course of five months. Raiders fans disagreed, but everyone else agreed the only reason they led the NFL in penalties annually for decades was that they had a dirty owner who actively selected dirty players. It's different now. Very different.

    Rules are increasingly and systematically created to level the trees, not the forest, and close calls usually go in favor of the cool kids and populars team. Thus Americas Team benefits from lots of questionable playoff calls in against perennial trouble-making losers like the Lions, but finds themselves on the wrong end of those same dubious calls the following week against the NFLs original darlings from GB (in retrospect, the Fail Mary vs. GB practically declared a Seahawks dynasty before it happened.)

    All that said, blaming the refs or even Goodell is killing literal messengers for policy 32 owners wrote to maximize profits while the lone commissioner answerable to all of them can only look on helplessly while trying to figure out ways to rationalize it for the fans, often for the courts as well. He can overrule any ONE owner as long as the other 31 stand behind him, but expecting him to lay down laws they wrote on ALL his collective bosses is expecting a fantasy: There are easier ways to commit suicide.
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

    Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
    Love can't be coerced. —Me

  15. #29

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    I don't have a problem with refs messing up a play in real time. I hate when they review it and still screw it up. But that isn't often.

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  17. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    So what's the end game to this? What conspiracy is this constant moaning about referees ending with?

    Sorry if I think this whole thing is utterly ridiculous, but what are people implying by these complaints?

    Because the ironic thing is if there is a conspiracy, it's not working out for the so-called perpetrators. Denver won both its games where the penalties were lop-sided. Chicago won tonight.

    IN terms of the Broncos, that defense is wildly undisciplined and the offensive line is terrible. Maybe they should do a better job of not drawing penalties?
    I won't imply anything this time, I'm saying the NFL screws teams over on a weekly basis, on purpose. They don't just officiate the game, they literally **** teams over, on purpose. My guess the end game is much the same as deflating balls, taping walk-through's and bugging locker rooms.

    Btw, I'm not talking about TJ Ward spearing Cutler on the ground, I'm talking about bullshit holding calls on Kayvon Webster that directly lead to TDs for the other team, I'm talking about the lack of holding and hands to the face calls on the other teams OL.
    Last edited by Simple Jaded; 11-27-2015 at 05:34 PM.
    "Tuning ... into each other ... lift all higher”
    “I’m just different!”

    Sign Garbage Minshew.

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