Thread: Are the 2015 Broncos going to collapse?

I was on J-Dubs Dubsism blog tonight: https://dubsism.wordpress.com/

He is a pretty colorful guy with good insights on sports.

On his most recent podcast at the top of the screen, he stated his belief: The Broncos are due for a collapse (he states this in the last 20 minutes of the cast).

I told him that, if Denver wins the next two games, that probably won't happen. However, if they lose them, and if Manning regresses, he should be pulled. I also said in the comments section that Manning is the reason Kubes can't run his offense.

What do you guys think. Is he right, or can this team keep this up?

It honestly wouldn't shock me a bit. I don't think relying on the defense to force a turnover in the last minute of every game is a sustainable way to keep winning especially once we start playing better teams than we have so far. I've said this a few times, but I think we will find out WAY more about this team after the Green Bay game. If they embarrass us, I could definitely see the team start to go down the tubes. If we hang with them though or even win, then I will still be willing to call the team a contender.

So it's really hard to answer at this point, but I think it is a very realistic scenario that the defense doesn't keep up the insanely good pace they have been on against some less than stellar offenses and the offense just won't be good enough to make up for it.

Now having said that, it's also entirely possible that the defense is the truth and the offense improves to the level that we could become a very strong title contender.

So basically my answer is "Who knows" but I really could see the team going in either direction.

They're paying a QB 15 million a season, they are going to live or die with the guy whether the fans like it or not. Adding more threads about the same thing is not going to change it.

Originally Posted by 7DnBrnc53

I was on J-Dubs Dubsism blog tonight: https://dubsism.wordpress.com/

He is a pretty colorful guy with good insights on sports.

On his most recent podcast at the top of the screen, he stated his belief: The Broncos are due for a collapse (he states this in the last 20 minutes of the cast).

I told him that, if Denver wins the next two games, that probably won't happen. However, if they lose them, and if Manning regresses, he should be pulled. I also said in the comments section that Manning is the reason Kubes can't run his offense.

What do you guys think. Is he right, or can this team keep this up?

Almost everything you said is flat wrong.

Only 2 teams in NFL history that started 6-0 missed the playoffs. The 2009 Broncos was the last one and they had numerous fatal flaws: 1) McMoron was the head coach; 2) Kyle Orton was the QB; and 3) the defense wasn't remotely this good. They won with miracle plays (the "immaculate deflection") and everybody knew it couldn't last.

This team is winning with great defense. That CAN last. In fact that's how many Super Bowl teams have won.

Even if the Broncos start losing some games to teams that are playing much better on offense they are not going to "collapse" with this defense. The only thing that could precipitate a collapse would be injuries to key defenders like Von Miller and DeMarcus Ware. But, Ware is coming back for the Packers game.

Manning can't "regress" because his failures are almost entirely due to the fact that the offense just isn't very good. His arm isn't going to get any weaker at this point. The only question is whether the OL line is going to improve or continue to be horrible.

Well, unless they suffer more injuries they are obviously going to improve as they gain experience playing together. Getting Ty Sambrailo back at LT will be an improvement, getting Evan Mathis and Louis Vasquez healthy and Max Garcia more experience will help. Moving Ryan Harris and Tyler Polumbus back to RT will be an improvement.

In short, the OL can hardly play worse. The running game can't "regress". The biggest problem Peyton has is that he has nobody to throw to. His receivers aren't getting open because every defense knows that Peyton can only throw the ball to DT and Sanders - the Broncos can't run it, and because they lost Julius Thomas and Wes Welker and nobody has replaced their production. He doesn't have anybody open in the red zone, unlike previous seasons when they could throw to Welker and J.T.

Well, they are going to have to run much better. You can't be totally one-dimensional in this league. That depends entirely on better play from the OL.

You're also wrong about Manning. The main reason Kubiak can't run his offense is that the OL can't protect Peyton under center. While he executes the 3 step drop they are plowing the OL right back into Peyton. The Pistol is designed so that Peyton doesn't have to turn his back to the defense and can just step up and throw before the defenders can reach him - even though they are blasting through the OL in under 2 seconds.

It gets the ball out of his hands quicker. It wouldn't matter if Brock Osweiler were back there. If he tried to execute a 3 step drop and then set up, look down field, go through his progressions and then throw the ball he'd be sacked on every play. The OL can't hold their blocks that long.

Can Peyton roll out? Well you saw them run that several times last game and he hit his
passes.

As for the Broncos "pulling Peyton" that is just hopelessly stupid. There is flat ZERO chance that Kubiak is going to "pull" Peyton Manning for some guy who's never played an NFL game. To suggest it simply proves that you are hopelessly ignorant.

It would be horrible to Osweiler's development to throw him to the wolves like that! What if they threw him in there and the team started losing MORE games? Then what? Of course he's going to struggle in his first season starting. They need to ease him in from the beginning of the year and give him all the starting reps and get him used to working with the #1s all the time and develop some chemistry BEFORE the season.

We've seen desperate coaches throw some rookie QB into the middle of the season before, usually in a hopeless attempt to avoid being fired themselves. And it almost NEVER works, and often destroys the confidence of the young player. It can also backfire severely by dividing the locker room.

Exhibit "A" to this kind of stupidity was Shanahan's move to bench Jake Plummer when the team was 7-3 and start rookie QB Jay Cutler. The team started losing, the locker room was divided, and the Broncos missed the playoffs. Oh, and it certainly didn't help Cutler's development any.

No matter what the idiot fans might think, the Broncos players are fiercely loyal to Peyton. There's absolutely NO way that Kubiak can, should or will replace him this season. If Peyton continues to struggle they will continue to find ways to try and help him, and then if it doesn't work they will give the ball to Brock at the beginning of next season and give him an entire pre-season to get ready to start. That's the proper way.

The idea that you can somehow "save" the Broncos season with a QB who's never started an NFL game is utterly absurd. If Peyton can't do it, it ain't getting done this year. Period.

But, with this defense they aren't going to "collapse". They have a 3 game lead over the Raiders, and beat them already on the road so they have the tie-breaker. They have a 4 and 1/2 game lead over the Chargers and Chiefs who are as good as eliminated. Does anybody really believe that the Raiders are going to go 8-2 the rest of the way, which they would need to do to gain the division title, even if the Broncos go 4-6?

Wont collapse like we did with McDaniels when we were 6-0 or anything but most likely will get bounced by NE in the playoffs. Complete different team and identity now. This team has heart but lacks the weapons. Sorry just being real because I think our offense just doesn't have what it takes. Defense does but not the offense.

This team is winning with great defense. That CAN last. In fact that's how many Super Bowl teams have won.

I hope you are right. I agree that this defense is much better than the one they had in 09 when they started 6-0 with McCheater.

This team has heart but lacks the weapons. Sorry just being real because I think our offense just doesn't have what it takes. Defense does but not the offense.

I don't think that the weapons on this offense are the problem because there is talent at WR and RB (although TE is kind of a mess right now). OL is the problem, but they are starting to play better.

You're also wrong about Manning. The main reason Kubiak can't run his offense is that the OL can't protect Peyton under center. While he executes the 3 step drop they are plowing the OL right back into Peyton. The Pistol is designed so that Peyton doesn't have to turn his back to the defense and can just step up and throw before the defenders can reach him - even though they are blasting through the OL in under 2 seconds.

It gets the ball out of his hands quicker. It wouldn't matter if Brock Osweiler were back there. If he tried to execute a 3 step drop and then set up, look down field, go through his progressions and then throw the ball he'd be sacked on every play. The OL can't hold their blocks that long.

OK, fair enough.

I don't think so. If they win the rest of their division games remaining (4) they finish at least 10-6 which in most years is good for a playoff berth and likely the division. That in no way is a collapse.

With more than half of their home games to be played after the bye-week I don't think they will collapse. What happened to the Broncos in '09 they lost eight games in ten weeks. That's a collapse.

I doubt there is a calapse. Kubiak is a good coach. Team has solid veteran presence to keep it together.

The worst I see is 12--4, which will still be good enough to win the division and get a 1st round bye.

This defense is too good for us to end up a .500 team.

6 of the next 10 games are in Denver. That's a good thing. I'm expecting a one and done in the playoffs so I don't see a collapse coming.

i think we lose but not collapse. We are way to talented to just collapse.


The Oline is only going to get better. The offense is only going to get better. We are 6-0 and we are not even running on 6 cylinders yet. If anything we are collapsed now and still winning. I dont think we win vs greenbay, but we will make the playoffs and if the offense gets just a little bit in gear we will go real far.

Originally Posted by underrated29

i think we lose but not collapse. We are way to talented to just collapse.


The Oline is only going to get better. The offense is only going to get better. We are 6-0 and we are not even running on 6 cylinders yet. If anything we are collapsed now and still winning. I dont think we win vs greenbay, but we will make the playoffs and if the offense gets just a little bit in gear we will go real far.

Eventually Denver will lose I don't know how many games it will be. Green Bay is good but it is at home and they have some noticeable weaknesses and since it's at home it winnable.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Only 2 teams in NFL history that started 6-0 missed the playoffs. The 2009 Broncos was the last one and they had numerous fatal flaws: 1) McMoron was the head coach; 2) Kyle Orton was the QB; and 3) the defense wasn't remotely this good. They won with miracle plays (the "immaculate deflection") and everybody knew it couldn't last.

I agree with everything you said here.

Originally Posted by Cugel

As for the Broncos "pulling Peyton" that is just ********** ******. There is flat ZERO chance that Kubiak is going to "pull" Peyton Manning for some guy who's never played an NFL game. To suggest it simply proves that you are ********* ********.

It would be horrible to Osweiler's development to throw him to the wolves like that! What if they threw him in there and the team started losing MORE games? Then what? Of course he's going to struggle in his first season starting. They need to ease him in from the beginning of the year and give him all the starting reps and get him used to working with the #1s all the time and develop some chemistry BEFORE the season.

We've seen desperate coaches throw some rookie QB into the middle of the season before, usually in a hopeless attempt to avoid being fired themselves. And it almost NEVER works, and often destroys the confidence of the young player. It can also backfire severely by dividing the locker room.

Exhibit "A" to this kind of stupidity was Shanahan's move to bench Jake Plummer when the team was 7-3 and start rookie QB Jay Cutler. The team started losing, the locker room was divided, and the Broncos missed the playoffs. Oh, and it certainly didn't help Cutler's development any.

No matter what the ***** fans might think, the Broncos players are fiercely loyal to Peyton. There's absolutely NO way that Kubiak can, should or will replace him this season. If Peyton continues to struggle they will continue to find ways to try and help him, and then if it doesn't work they will give the ball to Brock at the beginning of next season and give him an entire pre-season to get ready to start. That's the proper way.

The idea that you can somehow "save" the Broncos season with a QB who's never started an NFL game is utterly absurd. If Peyton can't do it, it ain't getting done this year. Period.

Tony Banks led the 2000 Ravens to a 5-1. After losing the following game, he was benched for Trent Dilfer after throwing 3 INTs in the 8th game of the season. After losing his 1st start the following week, Dilfer's Ravens won the last 7 regular season games & 4 post season games to win the SB. After the season was over, both QBs were kicked to the curb & they brought in 31 year old Elvis Grbac to take over QB duties.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/rav/2000.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...s/rav/2001.htm

Why did the Ravens manage their QBs like this, because the understood that Banks had nothing to do with their 5-1 start? Their D & RB Ray Rice were winning games in spite of his horrible QB play. It only took them being on the road to a 2nd consecutive loss due to horrible QB play to make the switch, in spite of the fact that they were still 5-3 after that lose.

Here are at 6-0 knowing that Manning had almost nothing to do with 4 of those wins. How many bad loses will it take before we can't continue to deny that Manning is part of the problem? A loss at home against the Packers & road loss against the Colts? The 1st is probable & the 2nd is possible if the Colts bring their "A" game. Remember, Buddy Ryan's (father of Rex & Rob Ryan) downfall was that his Os were so inept that they couldn't keep their Ds off the field. When your opponents’ Os as a more then 2-1 time of possession advantage, even the most elite Ds will eventually crack. That's what happened to the Cards when Ryan was their head coach. We have at least 3 Os on the schedule that will crack our D if our O doesn't get its act together & keep our D off the field long enough to catch its breath: Packers, Patriots & Bengals. Colts & Steelers could do the same thing if they bring their "A" game, with will require the Steelers to play just about any QB but Vick.

Furthermore, Oz isn't some rookie QB, who has been told that he's guaranteed to succeed in the NFL, being handed the starting role that he hasn’t actually done anything to earn. He's a QB that has been working hard, learning under Manning for the last 4 years in order to earn the privilege of being our next starting QB. The closes situation that's comparable to his is Arron Rodgers sitting 3 years under Favre. I'm not guaranteeing you that he's going to by the next Rodgers, but pointing out that if you’re looking for some precedence that similar to Oz to predict his future, Rodgers pretty much it. Note that I’m not including QBs like Brady & Warner because they were brought in to be career backups, Oz wasn’t.