Thread: Broncos still feel effects of late start on offensive line

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. – The bottom line is the Denver Broncos liked what they saw from their embattled offensive line in the victory over the Cleveland Browns.

AND

There are some elements of good news/bad news with in that. The good news is this the Broncos needed any kind anof uptick in one of the real trouble spots in the season’s early going. The fact that last Sunday’s effort was the best of the season does show what a struggle it’s been to this point.

The issue, at the moment, is practice. It's difficult for the Broncos to play like a cohesive unit on game day, one that makes quality decisions on the fly because the players know each other so well in any and all situations, when the group doesn’t practice together through the week.

The Broncos' line simply hasn't worked together much because of a shoulder injury to left tackle Ty Sambrailo, a hamstring injury to guard Evan Mathis and guard Louis Vasquez’s troublesome knee, along with a missed practice or two by Harris. And that has shown at times on game day.

During the last four weeks, including the on-field work the Broncos did this week before the team sent the players into the bye week, the Broncos' starting offensive line has practiced together just two days. And in the days leading up to the game in Cleveland, the offensive line that started that game did not work together in any of the full practices that week.

Opposing defenses have taken note how the Broncos’ don’t always come off double-teams soon enough to pick up extra rushers. Defenses have repeatedly gotten to Manning by bringing an extra rusher from off the line of scrimmage after a short delay.

The defenses also have attacked what the Broncos had believed would be their greatest strength: Mathis and Vasquez. In the opinion of some of those who have them faced them, their physical ailments are affecting their ability to move the way the Broncos would like them to move.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-bronc...offensive-line

The problem is that Elway has been trying for years to save cap space by underpaying his OL. He believed apparently that because Peyton gets rid of the ball so quickly, he could get by on the OL with re-treads, cast-off FAs cut from other teams, low paid rookies and lower round draft picks.

In 2013 it cost the Broncos any chance of winning the SB when Seattle overwhelmed the Broncos under manned OL all game. In 2014 instead of going out and getting a STUD RT, the Broncos tried to move journeyman T Chris Clark from left to right and moved underperforming RT Orlando Franklin to LG. When Clark couldn't do the job, they tried Michael Schofield (Elway drafted him after all and they "wanted to see what he could do" which was nothing. That failing, they tried moving RG Louis Vasquez to RT which created TWO holes on the OL instead of one. Meanwhile their former pro-bowl LT Ryan Clady played badly in his return from serious knee surgery, highlighting the need to draft a backup and possible replacement for him.

In the off-season I kept waiting to see who they sign as a FA to fill the gaping hole at RT. Nobody. In the draft they drafted a 2nd round LT. OK, but he's a rookie. Then Clady went down and instead of trying to trade for or find a good veteran T in FA they kept insisting that Ty Sambrailo would "be fine" as a raw rookie LT for a 39 year old QB. He wasn't. Pro-football focus rated him among the NFL worst starting Ts at -10.4.

For RT, after it became obvious in the pre-season that Michael Schofield was simply useless, the Broncos signed Ryan Harris, a career journeyman backup who started 6 games in 3 years in Texas, and played so underwhelmingly for the Chiefs last year they didn't want him back.

Then Sambrailo got hurt and the Broncos were forced to move Harris from RT where he was inadequate, but a veteran, to LT where he's been hopeless. The "answer" apparently has been to play more of T Tyler Polumbus, who is a former Broncos re-tread who's bounced around the league for 5 different teams and was out of football altogether last season. The very definition of "career backup." As bad as Sambrailo played, he has the potential for improvement with experience, so we can expect the OL to improve once he comes back and we don't see Harris at LT anymore.

At LG they grabbed the chance to sign former Pro-Bowler Evan Mathis. He's started every game despite coming off serious knee surgery from a year ago which prevented him from even practicing in the pre-season. He was one of the worst offenders on the OL at the beginning of the season. Then he suffered a hamstring injury that has limited his performance and made him a continuing liability. At 34 years old, a hamstring is not likely to get better over the course of this season. If he can continue to play at all this year it will be struggle. That's one big reason why nobody in the NFL wanted to pay him the money he was seeking in Philly ($7 million a year). The answer here has been to play more and more of rookie G Max Garcia, who at least is promising if utterly raw and inexperienced.

At C, once again they are starting Matt Paradis who's coming off the practice squad from a year ago and has never started an NFL game before. While not great, he's the least of their problems.

Louis Vasquez, the former pro-bowl RG has struggled with a knee injury.

Not only is the Broncos OL a patchwork of inferior and ageing players, they are all banged up and suffering from various sorts of injuries.

Hopefully they get a little better with the bye-week. But, this is clearly going to be a continuing problem all season. And it started when Elway refused to go out and get a really good RT to fill a desperate need.

If I have one complaint about Elway as a GM it's that he hasn't prioritized the offensive line.

Originally Posted by spikerman

If I have one complaint about Elway as a GM it's that he hasn't prioritized the offensive line.

I mean, he has spent multiple high draft picks on it over the past few years. And he brought in Mathis who was a pro bowler last year. Vasquez was another big signing there. So I don't think it's fair to say he hasn't prioritized that area. You expect your high draft picks to be good players and you can't forecast your best lineman going down for the year.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I mean, he has spent multiple high draft picks on it over the past few years.

A SINGLE MIDROUND pick=/="multiple high draft picks." He prioritized it more this year, because it had deterioriated so much for so long it's been the NFLs laughing stock since the start of LAST year, on the heels of costing us our first SB since he retired, but even then a 2nd and 4th rounder aren't enough, not when it's so bad 3 starters are shown the door. For all the talk of "win from now on" and "build through the draft," he's contented himself with adding FAs as and ONLY when starters leave.

Consequently, the whole thing (except Vasquez) is a total teardown this year, and scrambling for enough decent players to fill all the gaps that had always been there left absolutely NOTHING to fill another the moment a SINGLE starter got hurt. In fairness, Elway's belatedly prioritizing the line now, and the greatest evidence is bringing in Kubiak and Dennison, guys known for building and maintaining great lines every year of their careers all the way back to our SB wins. But it's too late for Manning.

All that's as inexcusable as it is inexplicable, because Elway spent most of his career in a situation eerily similar to what he handed Manning in Denver (i.e. first ballot HoF QB and solid D, but journeyman RBs and scrub linemen who gave the QB NO protection NOR run support) before a line and running game finally got him over the hump just before his career ended. That's why Manning came to Denver, after all: Elway's been where he is, so he trusted Elway to put that experience to use.

Too little, too late; hopefully Oz is as good as Yoshi claims, because the only thing less likely than sorting out this line before next season is Manning playing that long.

Originally Posted by spikerman

If I have one complaint about Elway as a GM it's that he hasn't prioritized the offensive line.

I think he will continue to work on it the next couple of years in preparation for Oz and his tenure in Denver. Wont do much for this year but with Manning's diminished skills i dont think it would of mattered too much anyway.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

I mean, he has spent multiple high draft picks on it over the past few years. And he brought in Mathis who was a pro bowler last year. Vasquez was another big signing there. So I don't think it's fair to say he hasn't prioritized that area. You expect your high draft picks to be good players and you can't forecast your best lineman going down for the year.

I think a first round pick or two would better illustrate his commitment. Also, Mathis was an afterthought. I firmly believe that if you want to be competitive game in and game out your best position group should be the o-line.

Originally Posted by spikerman

I think a first round pick or two would better illustrate his commitment. Also, Mathis was an afterthought. I firmly believe that if you want to be competitive game in and game out your best position group should be the o-line.

I totally disagree with the premise of drafting strictly by position of need in the first round. If there is not a player at their draft spot on the o-line with a first round grade then they shouldn't just pick an o-lineman to show commitment to building it.

Again, you can't forecast the most important player on your oline going down during OTAs.

Originally Posted by Joel

A SINGLE MIDROUND pick=/="multiple high draft picks." He prioritized it more this year, because it had deterioriated so much for so long it's been the NFLs laughing stock since the start of LAST year, on the heels of costing us our first SB since he retired, but even then a 2nd and 4th rounder aren't enough, not when it's so bad 3 starters are shown the door. For all the talk of "win from now on" and "build through the draft," he's contented himself with adding FAs as and ONLY when starters leave.

Consequently, the whole thing (except Vasquez) is a total teardown this year, and scrambling for enough decent player to fill all the gaps that had always been there left absolutely NOTHING to fill another the moment a SINGLE starter got hurt. In fairness, Elway's belatedly prioritizing the line now, and the greatest evidence is bringing in Kubiak and Dennison, guys known for building and maintaining great lines every year of their careers all the way back to our SB wins. But it's too late for Manning.

All that's as inexcusable as it is inexplicable, because Elway spent most of his career in a situation eerily similar to what he handed Manning in Denver (i.e. first ballot HoF QB and solid, but journeyman RBs and scrub linemen who gave the QB NO protection NOR run support) before a line and running game finally got him over the hump just before his career ended. That's why Manning came to Denver, after all: Elway's been where he is, so he trusted Elway to put that experience to use.

Too little, too late; hopefully Oz is as good as Yoshi claims, because the only thing less likely than this line being sorted before next season is Manning playing then.

I couldn't agree more with this assessment. Sad but true. It's just beyond sad that they have wasted the Manning era because they couldn't assemble a really good OL to protect him.

2015:
T Ty Sambrailo - 2nd round, #59.
He never should be starting and that wasn't the plan, but Clady's injury forced him prematurely into the lineup. He's been bad, but he's a raw rookie and you'd expect that. Hopefully he improves as he gets healthy and the season rolls along.

C - Max Garcia - 4th round compensatory pick at end of round, #133. Been better than expected and may get into the lineup at LG if Evan Mathis continues to struggle with age and injury.

2014:
T Michael Schofield - 3rd round #95
C Matt Paradis - 6th round #207

Schofield has been a total bust so far. One of the biggest disagreements with Elway that led to Fox leaving was about Schofield. They tried to give him the starting RT job last year and this season and he failed miserably. I have no idea why Elway won't admit it and get rid of him, but I imagine it will be next off-season when he finally gets cut.

They got lucky with Paradis, not great, but who has played extremely well for a 6th rounder and is the least of the Broncos OL woes.

2013:
T - Vinston Painter, 6th round, #173 - late round bust after getting cut he's now on the Dolphins practice squad.

2012:
C Philip Blake - 4th round, #108 - wasted pick.

T - Orlando Franklin 2nd round, #46. Highest round pick of the Elway era for an OL, and of course 4 years later he's no longer on the roster, leaving a gaping hole at RT that has never been fixed. They could have re-signed him but they didn't want to pay him. How much heat-ache would Kubiak have avoided if he had a healthy Franklin at G or T?

2 effective OL in 4 years when you need 5 starters is not remotely enough. Elway has stockpiled talent on the defense, which is now absurdly deep at every level, and almost totally ignored the offense, particularly the OL in the draft, which is now facing a massive talent deficiency.

Denver's offense is struggling because they don't have very many good players on offense. It's as simple as that. They lack impact players at TE, slot-receiver and RB and they can't run the ball with this OL which accounts for their red zone woes.

Hopefully Paradis, Max Garcia and Sambrailo become good OL next season, but they aren't even adequate right now that that is the biggest problem on the team.

In Elway's defense, if the team is going to be good on one side of the ball, defense is the way to go.

Originally Posted by spikerman

In Elway's defense, if the team is going to be good on one side of the ball, defense is the way to go.

And the o-line wouldn't even really be a problem if Manning could still overcome bad o-lines like he has his whole career. I'm not sure Elway counted on Manning regressing to the point that he has.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

And the o-line wouldn't even really be a problem if Manning could still overcome bad o-lines like he has his whole career. I'm not sure Elway counted on Manning regressing to the point that he has.

I don't know; I think he had a suspicion, hence the pay cut.

Originally Posted by spikerman

I don't know; I think he had a suspicion, hence the pay cut.

Agreed. Its pretty obvious going back to the end of last year, with or without good protection that he isnt the calibur of player he once was.

Originally Posted by Northman

Agreed. Its pretty obvious going back to the end of last year, with or without good protection that he isnt the calibur of player he once was.

Father time is undefeated, but he can still get it done. Tom Brady is considered great and he lives off of 7 yard passes on pick plays. There is no reason Manning can't.

Originally Posted by spikerman

Father time is undefeated, but he can still get it done. Tom Brady is considered great and he lives off of 7 yard passes on pick plays. There is no reason Manning can't.

We are fortunate that the defense is a good as it is to overcome the turnovers so far. I would love for Manning to be able to pull off the 7 yd passes like Brady but his accuracy with that is off to. Brady right now can still make the necessary plays consistently, but Manning is struggling right now but if he can get out of his funk the short passing game will work with the kind of defense we have. But Manning has got to scale back the turnovers, those are just killers right now for us.