Thread: Time to bench Peyton Manning

Originally Posted by Dapper Dan

Semen looked good too. Maybe he's better than barock osweiler

i wish you would stop pushing your homosexual agenda on us all - stop talking about semen.

Because Barrack Ozweiler.

Originally Posted by Yashahla17

He just passed Favre yesterday.

not in the regular season he didn't.

how you enjoying the forum Yash?

Originally Posted by Valar Morghulis

not in the regular season he didn't.

how you enjoying the forum Yash?

Pretty entertaining.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

But for the RB it's difference. Because in shotgun RB has to be patient for homes to develop and then hit them hard. And in Kubiak's system RB comes in and almost full speed to the list and cuts and bursts through a hole. Which typically momentum will carry them 2 yards and break arm tackles. Add in pistol, they do not have full speed, and holes may be too small and not able to break arm tackles with speed.

This hybrid system is killing the running game IMO. The system worked better with Oz. It was plain vanilla ZBS but it was working.

i do not disagree

Originally Posted by slim

He only needs 913 more yards. So maybe 4 or 5 more games.

probably 6 or 7 at this point

Peyton Manning is being asked to carry this whole offense every single play. It doesn't matter if he makes a bad decision.

Until someone else steps up, until we actually have confidence to run on 3rd and 1, blaming everything on Peyton is silly. Translating bad decisions into an arm that doesn't work is even sillier. There's inconsistent play and lack of chemistry all around. It's the coaches job to fix, not Peytons or Brocks. Thinking someone who is experience-wise almost a rookie is going to come in and fix the run game, fix the o-line, upgrade the TEs, get some depth at WR, and make everything gel and call the right pre-snap reads just because he can run a bootleg is absurd.

This is just absurd.

This is KUBIAKS problem to fix.

If they didn't field an incredible defense, they'd be 0-5 just as easily.

Originally Posted by cmc0605

Peyton Manning is being asked to carry this whole offense every single play. It doesn't matter if he makes a bad decision.

Until someone else steps up, until we actually have confidence to run on 3rd and 1, blaming everything on Peyton is silly. Translating bad decisions into an arm that doesn't work is even sillier. There's inconsistent play and lack of chemistry all around. It's the coaches job to fix, not Peytons or Brocks. Thinking someone who is experience-wise almost a rookie is going to come in and fix the run game, fix the o-line, upgrade the TEs, get some depth at WR, and make everything gel and call the right pre-snap reads just because he can run a bootleg is absurd.

Here's someone who understands and is sensible.

The reality is that things are not going to be better unless the OL plays better and they can run the ball better. Pretending that Osweiler would do better because he looked good in meaningless preseason games is just absurd. Not one NFL defense has ever tried to figure out "how do we stop Osweiler? What weaknesses does he have?"

Well, it's obvious that one weakness he has is inexperience. He has a slow release compared with Manning, so he holds the ball longer. With this feeble OL that would mean a lot more sacks, probably some strip sacks and fumbles, plus some INTs from Brock trying to throw under pressure.

There is no cavalry waiting over the hill to rescue this team. They are going to have to win with the talent they have on the roster right now, and even with the starters they have right now. Brock is just not a better alternative.

Ben Roethlisberger rides a cart into the locker room, his face contorted in pain. Tony Romo supports his crumpled shoulder with a sling. Drew Brees misses his second start in 11 years. Matthew Stafford's ribs and arms are battered. Andrew Luck is taking practice days off to nurse his ravaged body.

NFL quarterbacks took a beating in the first three weeks of the season, so much so that a long-simmering issue has been elevated into mainstream discussion. Offensive line play has deteriorated in a way that's apparent to both to the expert and novice eye, endangering the league's quarterback star system and threatening the aesthetic appeal of the game.

The situation has descended into an "epidemic," Hall of Fame executive Bill Polian said recently on ESPN, and there are no easy solutions.

"It's a sad state of affairs," Polian said. "And if it keeps up, we're going to be talking about backup quarterbacks playing a lot. Because when you've got problems with the offensive line, you get the quarterback on his back."

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...qb-star-system

from same article:

Along with allowing added pressure, offensive lines so far this season are providing less running room and taking more penalties than they did in the same stretch of time last season.

Average rushing yards before contact has dropped eight percent, from 2.35 yards per rush during the first three weeks of 2014 to 2.19 yards now. Accepted penalties for either holding or false starts, meanwhile, have risen 20 percent from a total of 219 during the first three weeks of last season to 275.

Those numbers are no surprise to offensive line coaches and longtime observers of the position who noted the trend long before this season's run of quarterback injuries.

full article - http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...qb-star-system

Not everyone at MHR agrees with Pete's #HotTake, but that's the beauty of sports blogging, isn't it?

Yeah... remember when we thought ubiquitous internet access would mean countless intelligent, articulate and diverse people from cultures and disciplines all over the world sharing ideas? Turns out it just means digging for that stuff through a mountain of rants from the loud guy at the end of the bar and grammas cat pictures. We didn't connect the thoughtful and insightful: We just dumbed down computers.

Originally Posted by Cugel

Here's someone who understands and is sensible.

The reality is that things are not going to be better unless the OL plays better and they can run the ball better. Pretending that Osweiler would do better because he looked good in meaningless preseason games is just absurd. Not one NFL defense has ever tried to figure out "how do we stop Osweiler? What weaknesses does he have?"

Well, it's obvious that one weakness he has is inexperience. He has a slow release compared with Manning, so he holds the ball longer. With this feeble OL that would mean a lot more sacks, probably some strip sacks and fumbles, plus some INTs from Brock trying to throw under pressure.

There is no cavalry waiting over the hill to rescue this team. They are going to have to win with the talent they have on the roster right now, and even with the starters they have right now. Brock is just not a better alternative.

But the biggest difference will be where the safeties line up against brock, how close the CB will play to line of scrimmage. Manning is blitzed 50% more this season then he ever has been in the past because he does not take advantage of the 1 on 1 match up he gets most of the time.

I blame how defenses play against Manning for 75% of this teams problems. Seattle wrote the book in the SB how to beat Manning and we face that style of defense every week now. Loaded boxes and CB pressuring WR off the line. Manning is the most blitzed QB right now because he can't make teams pay for it. The OL has been doing much better in pass protection the last two games which means that it is on Manning to make teams pay for blitzing.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 29m

Four of the last 15 world champs ('00 & '12 Ravens, '02 Bucs, '03 Pats) won multiple games without scoring an offensive TD, as Denver has.

I was encouraged by the early deep throw to Sanders. Don't remember the yardage, but I think it was around 30 yards.

It's OK to hammer on Manning when he isn't preforming to expectation, and he isn't. It's also OK to wonder if Brock - in this system - could run it better.

Think about it: He's mobile. Has a stronger arm. Knows the system (as well as Manning, anyway).

Wasn't thrilled when we signed Manning, but grew to love the dude. He is just simply past his prime. He is probably the most intelligent QB to ever play the game, and had above average physical skills to go with that. His mind is still one of the greatest, his body simply can't keep up.

Clearly, JMO.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

But the biggest difference will be where the safeties line up against brock, how close the CB will play to line of scrimmage. Manning is blitzed 50% more this season then he ever has been in the past because he does not take advantage of the 1 on 1 match up he gets most of the time.

I blame how defenses play against Manning for 75% of this teams problems. Seattle wrote the book in the SB how to beat Manning and we face that style of defense every week now. Loaded boxes and CB pressuring WR off the line. Manning is the most blitzed QB right now because he can't make teams pay for it. The OL has been doing much better in pass protection the last two games which means that it is on Manning to make teams pay for blitzing.

I keep seeing this, and I think it's just another talking point that has been circulated too much as to become gospel.

First, Peyton has thrown a lot of deep balls this season, some of which have been perfect (Sanders caught a 50ish yard one in stride vs. Minnesota, Sanders dropped one a couple weeks ago, and plenty have been just 1-2 yards off the mark...that's how low percentage throws work). There's been a bunch of jump balls down the field.

Second, defenses have played Denver lots of ways and Peyton has made them pay for blitzes on multiple occasions. We did it on a perfect TD pass to Owen Daniels a few weeks ago to put the game away. He threw for 266 yards in this most recent "awful" performance, and moved the ball down field several times, which is just fine by league standards, but we're not finding the end zone because of a weird mix of miscues, penalties, and bad luck. Yes, he threw two pre-half picks in a row, but neither of them were arm strength issues. Last week vs. Minnesota he got fooled when another guy came off his man and jumped the route, and this week it was just crummy anticipation with a blitzer right in his face.

Third, you don't make the defense back off just by having a strong arm. Young QBs, including Brock have to earn that right, and the deep ball is mostly irrelevant to that because of its low-percentage nature. What you really need to be able to do is pick up those 7,10,15 yard passes and read the blitz and exploit aggressiveness consistently. As another poster said, Brock may be amazing but he hasn't yet earned the right for teams to gameplan "for him."

So this popular notion that if Brock was in, suddenly 11 guys would back off and everything short (including the run) would open up, and teams wouldn't attack all out like they do any other young QB, is just based in fantasy.