Thread: PFF: Ranking offensive lines through week 5

Mathis and Vasquez are All Pros but STILL look like crap: That suggests the deficiency is familiarity (with both each other and the complex new playbook) not talent. Harris when we drafted him, in Houston and in KC; not stellar, but he wouldn't be a career starter if he sucked, and, as I recall, what got kept him off the field and then cut in Denver was his inability to stay healthy, not play.

Harris hasn't started everywhere he played. He started 15 games last year for the Chefs, but didn't even want him back, and he only started 5 games out of 32 in his last 2 seasons with the Texans. He's the classic definition of a "journeyman OL." If Ryan Harris is your starter, you need to go out and get a better OL because he's career backup quality.

As for Mathis, we presume he's going to be good because he was a pro-bowler in 2013. But, he turns 34 this November and he's coming off serious knee surgery from a year ago.

Perhaps there's a reason why nobody in the NFL wanted to pay him the money he wanted and he had to settle for even less $ than the $5 million he was scheduled to earn in Philly? He may NEVER return to his 2013 form, just as Peyton Manning will never be the player he was in 2010 before his 4 neck surgeries. So what do they have there? A Pro-Bowler or a guy who USED to be great but is now mediocre at best? So far based solely on the evidence we'd have to say the latter.

As for Paradis. He's been pretty bad, but he hasn't started a game in the NFL till now. Same for Sambrailo. They might be decent players - next season, but they certainly aren't any good right now, and it would be foolish to expect them to be much better their rookie years.

If they are relying on those players to help you get to a SB that's not good!

As for Vasquez, again you're saying "they are Pro-bowlers" based off what exactly? The fact that they were good in the past? Well, they are not playing well this season and there's some indication that Vasquez really isn't very well suited to a ZBS. He's more of a mauler.

That doesn't leave a lot of room for optimism about how far this OL can improve. They certainly shouldn't play any worse, and it might get better, but so far it's been horrible to barely tolerable.

And that's not remotely good enough when you have 39 year old Peyton Manning.


Actual image of Peyton from 2015

I had thought that I was seeing a slight trend of improvement in our O-line. Today they took a big step backward.

Originally Posted by Dean

I had thought that I was seeing a slight trend of improvement in our O-line. Today they took a big step backward.

I think that "slight improvement" is an optical illusion. Teams are ignoring the run, and blitzing Peyton on every play now. DBs are anticipating throws because Peyton is telegraphing throws.

Why? Did he suddenly get stupid and forget how to look a DB off his WR? Does anybody really believe that? No! He doesn't have time to throw because his OL is putrid.

And they can't run the ball so the play-action fake is just meaningless. Defenders just pay no attention to the fake. Why should they be concerned with the run when the Broncos are the worst rushing team in football?

One dimensional offense. DBs jumping routes? Peyton making bad decisions?

Where have we seen all this before? Super-Bowl!

He was under pressure all Super-Bowl and couldn't step into his throws and was hurrying to get the ball out of his hands in under 2 seconds. Bad things happened.

Bad offensive pass-blocking + old, slow, weak armed QB = lots of turnovers.

With everyone healthy what would be the ideal lineup?
I'd say
LT: Sambrailo
LG: Mathis
C: Paradis
RG: Vasquez
RT: Harris

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

With everyone healthy what would be the ideal lineup?
I'd say
LT: Sambrailo
LG: Mathis
C: Paradis
RG: Vasquez
RT: Harris

So you aren't counting the healthy Clady?

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

So you aren't counting the healthy Clady?

I get what he's saying but in this scenario I'd say.

LT -- Clady
LG -- Mathis
C -- Garcia
RG -- Vasquez
RT -- Sambrailo

Originally Posted by Jaded

I get what he's saying but in this scenario I'd say.

LT -- Clady
LG -- Mathis
C -- Garcia
RG -- Vasquez
RT -- Sambrailo

I for one would like to see some more Garcia.

Paradis isn't the problem.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Paradis isn't the problem.

I'd say he's "a" problem but certainly not THE problem, so you're right.

Realistically nobody (including Clady) is coming to the rescue of this putrid OL.

So, what hope is there for improvement?

The best I can see is to get Sambrailo healthy.

Here's Pro-Football Focus grades on the Broncos OL in the last game:

G Louis Vasquez (+3.4)
G Evan Mathis (+2.8)

So, Evan Mathis played worse than his season through the first four games: PFF on Mathis through 4 games: "Stud: It’s Evan Mathis (+3.7), but he hasn’t reached anywhere near the levels of play he was at in Philadelphia." But he's still the best Broncos OL.

Still the best takeaway from the Raiders game for the OL was the slight improvement in the play of Louis Vasquez. He grade out positive for this game which is a nice change.

So, with Paradis, Vasquez and Mathis all mediocre the real problems on the OL boil down to RT where Michael Schofield and Tyler Polumbus are total hot garbage, and LT where Ryan Harris is filling in for Sambrailo.

Sambrailo might be one of the worst LTs in football with a PFF -10.6 grade, but at least with him in the game, they can move Ryan Harris back to RT, and ship Michael Schofield off to the Philippines in exchange for some coconut.

Then they can pair a TE with Sambrailo to help him out. That might make the entire OL at least mediocre!

And if they can get to mediocre, then maybe they can run the ball a little. And if they can run the ball a little, then maybe the play-action pass can work a little. And if the play-action can work a little, then the LBs and S's have to slow down their rush a little, which gives Peyton a little more time to throw, and a little cleaner pocket in which to step up and throw. And if Peyton has a little more time and a cleaner pocket to throw, then he can start to look DBs off his WRs, so he can throw fewer picks. And he can have more time to complete the deep ball downfield. And if he can complete a few deep passes downfield, then the S's will have to back off and defend the pass instead of walking down into the box every play and blitzing Petyon.

And if the S's back off a bit, then some of the underneath patterns will be open and Peyton can throw some of the short balls. And if those patterns open up that might help the running game a bit more.

This offense might be able to score 30 points on occasion and win some games!

I watched one run play where the NT made a stuff on a stretch play. At first glance you would assume Paradis didn't do his job, but that's not the case at all.

Paradis moved Williams 1 yard off the line of scrimmage and held his block for about 2 seconds, then went to the next level and blocked someone 5 yards up field.

The problem: we got beat so bad on the edge, by the time CJ made his cut the NT had time to make the play.

I don't blame Ty for being rated so bad. He has been asked a lot for a roomie. Suggs and Hali already have squared off with him in first two weeks. They make guys look bad all the time. Game 3 he was injured.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

I don't blame Ty for being rated so bad. He has been asked a lot for a roomie. Suggs and Hali already have squared off with him in first two weeks. They make guys look bad all the time. Game 3 he was injured.

I agree, I'm just pointing out we have major issues on the edge. They were starting to improve, seemingly.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

I agree, I'm just pointing out we have major issues on the edge. They were starting to improve, seemingly.

Which is to be expected with this system. And it seems obvious they see the problem when you are rotating back ups in at tackle. Garcia and polumbus got snaps at RT.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

Which is to be expected with this system. And it seems obvious they see the problem when you are rotating back ups in at tackle. Garcia and polumbus got snaps at RT.

Agreed, I'm just trying to point out if we can solidify OT we might have a decent line.

We are down to our #4 and #5 OT's. I guess we shouldn't be surprised the line is struggling so badly.