Thread: Ranking the NFL's most and least valuable kicking games

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...-kicking-games

Chart which shows best to worst

Steelers are way down there and it showed Thursday. lol

Originally Posted by Northman

Steelers are way down there and it showed Thursday. lol

North, you should change your handle to CaptainObvious.

With precision and consistency more critical than ever, and multiple teams struggling to find either, I'd think SOMEONE would take a chance on Kickalicious' automatic trick shots. After all, KCs kicker since last year is a Brazilian soccer player who came to the US as a HS exchange student and learned football from (wait for it...) playing Madden. Yet the ESPN list ranks KC above 13 other teams (i.e. slightly below average.) It's hard to believe the bias against lefties is stronger than the bias against missing chip shot FGs and/or PATs several times a week. Rugland's 30 now, but as a kicker he could play another decade.

Good to see Denver back on top in placekicking though (even if most people will always give our kicking stats an asterisk because half our games are at Mile High.)

I expected some "attaboys" for the Broncos

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

I expected some "attaboys" for the Broncos

I figured, and gave you one (sort of.) Fairly or not, NOTHING Denvers kicking does will never get many "attaboys" until/unless done near sea level. I don't follow MLB, so haven't checked, but I'm guessing the Rockies usually hit more HRs than most other teams—except VISITING teams, of course.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

I expected some "attaboys" for the Broncos

If there is one thing Denver has been consistently good at for the last 20 years is kicking so i kind of expected us to be near the top anyway.

Originally Posted by Joel

With precision and consistency more critical than ever, and multiple teams struggling to find a kicker capable of either, one would think SOMEONE would take a chance on Kickalicious' automatic trick shots. After all, KCs kicker since last year is a Brazilian soccer player who came to the US as a HS exchange student and learned football from (wait for it...) playing Madden. Note: The ESPN list ranks KC 19th (i.e. slightly below average.) It's hard to believe the bias against lefties is stronger than the bias against missing chip shot FGs and/or PATs several times each week. I know the guy's 30 now, but as a kicker he could play another decade.

Good to see Denver back on top in placekicking though (even if most people will always give our kicking stats an asterisk because half our games are at Mile High.)

Colorado Rockies Nolan Arenado is tied with Harper for the most home runs in the National League - 42. The Rockies' announcers are quick to state that he has hit more on the road than at Coors Field.

Originally Posted by Joel

I figured, and gave you one (sort of.) Fairly or not, NOTHING Denvers kicking does will never get many "attaboys" until/unless done near sea level. I don't follow MLB, so haven't checked, but I'm guessing the Rockies usually hit more HRs than most other teams—except VISITING teams, of course.

Rockies are 6th for hitting most home runs
http://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/st...atistics/2015/

There have been more homeruns hit in three ballparks this year than at Coors Field
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/stadiums.php

Originally Posted by Joel

With precision and consistency more critical than ever, and multiple teams struggling to find either, I'd think SOMEONE would take a chance on Kickalicious' automatic trick shots. After all, KCs kicker since last year is a Brazilian soccer player who came to the US as a HS exchange student and learned football from (wait for it...) playing Madden. Yet the ESPN list ranks KC above 13 other teams (i.e. slightly below average.) It's hard to believe the bias against lefties is stronger than the bias against missing chip shot FGs and/or PATs several times a week. Rugland's 30 now, but as a kicker he could play another decade.

Good to see Denver back on top in placekicking though (even if most people will always give our kicking stats an asterisk because half our games are at Mile High.)

Being able to kick the ball a little further in Denver doesn't mean it will be more accurate. Over the last two weeks McManus has kicked two field goals at or near sea level. Both have been 45 yards plus (54 and 48) respectively.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Rockies are 6th for hitting most home runs
http://www.sportingcharts.com/mlb/st...atistics/2015/

6th out of 30 is still a pretty high ranking, especially since Coors Field has a farther centerfield wall than all but FOUR MLB parks. With the notable exception of Houston (which has the 2nd most HRs in the 1st largest ballpark) home teams in the few larger stadiums rank far lower than 6th: Boston is 15th, Detroit 18th and Florida 29th (building a huge stadium at sea level is bad for HRs.)

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

There have been more homeruns hit in three ballparks this year than at Coors Field
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/stadiums.php

Partial (even nearly complete) seasons are unreliably small samples, because too vulnerable to skewing anomalies. During the 2012 postseason, Bill James' site had an article best (and worst) hitters parks since 2010: Coors Field was 1st in runs (by a fair margin,) tied for 1st in HRs and last in foul outs. http://www.billjamesonline.com/the_b...hitters_parks/

It's no accident the first three hits when googling most HRs by ballpark are articles whose headline picture is a shot of Coors Field.
http://www.sportingnews.com/fantasy/...xpert-analysis
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...eague-baseball
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...by-the-numbers

It's like global warming: The causes (i.e. higher elevations have thinner air, CO2 traps heat) are repeatedly, invariably proven and documented FACTS, so if the causes were KNOWN to be present WITHOUT their EFFECTS (i.e. balls flying farther in thinner air, temperatures rising in proportion to CO2 concentrations) thatwould be a huge anomaly DEMANDING explanation.

More simply, people think balls go farther in Denvers thinner air because 1) balls go farther in ALL thinner air and 2) the longterm statistical record says they go farther in Denvers.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Being able to kick the ball a little further in Denver doesn't mean it will be more accurate. Over the last two weeks McManus has kicked two field goals at or near sea level. Both have been 45 yards plus (54 and 48) respectively.

Oh, that's certainly true, and one could even argue Mile High air presents kickers with unique challenges because their COACHES mentally increase their range just as everyone else does. Prater's got a nice leg, no doubt, but how many coaches would have even tried his record-setting FG anywhere else? I don't mean to diminish McManus (nor Prater, nor Elam, nor Karlis, nor any kicker.) But unless someone comes along and starts regularly booting 70 yarders in Denver, don't expect anyone but Broncos fans to be impressed, even by 100% accuracy.

I loved Elam, but couldn't help noting his accuracy didn't match his power: That's just the nature of Denvers environment, and another reason I valued accuracy over power when we were seeking Praters replacement last year. When lots of people can boot balls 50, 55 or more yards at Mile High, it's more important than ever they go straight, and the ability to inaccurately kick 60+ on the road matters less when half our games will have the advantage of thin air anyway. Before Prater broke the record (at Mile High, naturally) there had been (IIRC) a total of 5 FGs from 63 yds:

1 below sea level in New Orleans, by a kicker with a wooden club in the front half of his shoe; it's presumably obvious why the NFL banned that pretty much the instant he retired.
1 600' above sea level in Green Bay, where it hit the crossbar, then went through the posts.
3 at Mile High

Still gotta kick 'em straight, and that gets much harder as distance becomes extreme. But outside Denver it's not even worth bothering; even with laser precision 63 yds is too far.

Arenado's home run barrage is no Coors Field concoction. Of his 42 homers this year, 22 have been hit on the road, and six of his 10 homers against the Giants were delivered at AT&T Park.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci...rockies-giants

Originally Posted by Joel

Oh, that's certainly true, and one could even argue Mile High air presents kickers with unique challenges because their COACHES mentally increase their range just as everyone else does. Prater's got a nice leg, no doubt, but how many coaches would have even tried his record-setting FG anywhere else? I don't mean to diminish McManus (nor Prater, nor Elam, nor Karlis, nor any kicker.) But unless someone comes along and starts regularly booting 70 yarders in Denver, don't expect anyone but Broncos fans to be impressed, even by 100% accuracy.

I loved Elam, but couldn't help noting his accuracy didn't match his power: That's just the nature of Denvers environment, and another reason I valued accuracy over power when we were seeking Praters replacement last year. When lots of people can boot balls 50, 55 or more yards at Mile High, it's more important than ever they go straight, and the ability to inaccurately kick 60+ on the road matters less when half our games will have the advantage of thin air anyway.

Even in Denver it's situational. When Prater broke the record the kick came at the end of the first half against the Titans. I think if the game had been in Nashville with same set circumstances Fox trots Prater for the attempt because even if he misses it's the end of the half. If it's last seconds of ball game any coach might reconsider even Denver. McManus hit 70 yarder in training but that doesn't nessarily mean Kubiak would send him out there.

I'm not sure what you're talking about Joel. Elam was one best in League when he was in his prime. Early in his career he struggled a little accuracy on mid-range kicks but straightened that out pretty quickly. For his career I think he was in the 90s for accuracy. If I needed a 70 yarder to win a game I would take Elam in his prime. Given some time might feel the same way about McManus.

If I'm mistaken Morten Anderson kicked two 60 yard field goals in New Orleans.

Karlis didn't have a big leg from what I remember.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci...rockies-giants

Okay, so that ONE player is just flatout smacking the crap out of a lot of balls: The ENTIRE MAJOR LEAGUE isn't, but Coors Field still has more runs (home and otherwise) since 2010 than ANY other ballpark. Just as the NFLs longest, and 4 of its 6 longest, FGs were at Mile High, with the other 2 coming off a cross bar above sea level and a prosthetic foot at sea level. THREE DIFFERENT PEOPLE HAVE HIT A 63 YD FG AT MILE HIGH. That's as much as EVERYONE else ANYWHERE.

So most everyone who doesn't read or write for a Denver paper will take that into account when they see otherwise eye-popping kicking and hitting stats from Denver. Doesn't mean every Denver kicker/hitter sucks, nor even that they can't be elite: It just means each must be that much MORE elite to convince anyone outside Denver, because the rest of the country will always give them asterisks.