Thread: Clady.

Originally Posted by Joel

Well, for the sake of argument, whom would you rather see starting: Sambrailo or Ray?

Or another argument, Clady coming off of yet another season ending injury or possible NFL sack leader Ware.

Originally Posted by Rick

Or another argument, Clady coming off of yet another season ending injury or possible NFL sack leader Ware.

Yeah, fair point; the real question is how much is the performance drop from Ware to Ray and from Clady to Sambrailo. But I doubt Clady plays another season for us at $10 million in any event. If we knew his 2016 would be another All Pro season, sure, but we definitely don't know that considering this is his third severe injury to the same leg, and each season following the last two was subpar.

Originally Posted by Joel

Yeah, fair point; the real question is how much is the performance drop from Ware to Ray and from Clady to Sambrailo. But I doubt Clady plays another season for us at $10 million in any event. If we knew his 2016 would be another All Pro season, sure, but we definitely don't know that considering this is his third severe injury to the same leg, and each season following the last two was subpar.

Joel, what is the median pay scale for a starting LT?

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

If you are a player that can get upfront money, why would you take a paycut.. incentive laden... contract? Especially if you are a player that has had to deal with injuries. You think the player doesn't know he's had injuries?

Restructure, spread out money over more years, make more incentives then guarentees. I did not say pay cut.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Joel, what is the median pay scale for a starting LT?

Do you want the long answer or the short answer?

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Joel, what is the median pay scale for a starting LT?

I don't know the median, but OtC says there are only 7 OTs (left or not, and including Clady) making $10+ mil/yr. They have Duane Brown at $8.9, Russell Okung just over $8 and Joe Staley just under $7½: Those are elite LTs not coming off a pair off season-ending injuries to the same leg. So is Elway sure Clady's still a top 5 OT? He's paid like one.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

Restructure, spread out money over more years, make more incentives then guarentees. I did not say pay cut.

That's a great idea if Clady (and his agent) are agreeable, but are they? Or do they think they could get more from some team desperate for even a decent LT to protect their $20 mil/yr QB investment? As others have said, Clady knows his injury history, too, so just how much unguaranteed cash would he be willing to trade to stay on the team when he's already gotten most of what we'll EVER pay him? This might be a situation where bad memories over a franchise tag come back to bite us.

Originally Posted by Joel

I don't know the median, but OtC says there are only 7 OTs (left or not, and including Clady) making $10+ mil/yr. They have Duane Brown at $8.9, Russell Okung just over $8 and Joe Staley just under $7½: Those are elite LTs not coming off a pair off season-ending injuries to the same leg. So is Elway sure Clady's still a top 5 OT? He's paid like one.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/...t/left-tackle/

Here is a break down. Top shelf left tackles are at $9 mill and up, top 5 left tackle is $10 mill us. Solid pro bowl is $7 mill plus. Stanley and Okung are at end of contracts and will be paid better soon. I do not think Clady is a top 5 tackle but is probably bowl caliber. I think $8 million is fair.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/...t/left-tackle/

Here is a break down. Top shelf left tackles are at $9 mill and up, top 5 left tackle is $10 mill us. Solid pro bowl is $7 mill plus. Stanley and Okung are at end of contracts and will be paid better soon. I do not think Clady is a top 5 tackle but is probably bowl caliber. I think $8 million is fair.

Probably; think he'll take a $2 mil/yr cut? ESPN was speculating on a restructure in February of THIS year, even before he tore an ACL.

Trade.

Originally Posted by Joel

Probably; think he'll take a $2 mil/yr cut? ESPN was speculating on a restructure in February of THIS year, even before he tore an ACL.

Damn it, I never said a cut, i said restructure in my other posts!!!

No player takes a straight cut.

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

Damn it, I never said a cut, i said restructure in my other posts!!!

No player takes a straight cut.

Call it what we like, I doubt he accepts $8 million to play next year when legally entitled to >$10 million. Not when so many teams are desperate for blindside QB protection that they'll glady pay that for a former All Pro and hope he's as good as new after surgery. Likewise, after three major injuries in six years, all to the same leg, I doubt his agent's dumb enough to tell him to take a reduced salary with a bunch of incentives he'll never make if hobbled, hurt again or just benched as a shell of a formerly great player.

I'd love to see Clady return if he's his old self, and that would be a bargain at $10 million, whether we're trying to protect an immobile surgically repaired 40-year-old or a guy getting his first NFL starts. But we don't know he WILL be his old self, and have strong reason to doubt it. Regardless, what I'd like and what happens are frequently very divergent because of decisions entirely in the hands of others; negotiations between Elway and Clady (and his agent) are a good example.

Originally Posted by WARHORSE

Trade.

Maybe not a bad idea; Clady's got a great performance record (when healthy) and remains young enough to have several good years if healthy again. Teams that need a LT badly may not be willing to wait and see if we really cut him, then get into a bidding war in hopes they 1) don't lose and 2) get him for less than he's due (especially since a bidding war raises the chance the winner pays MORE.)

I'm normally trade averse because draft picks are so overvalued and players so undervalued that the only players with decent trade value are too good to give away, while those we can afford losing have little value. But every rule has an exception, and this is one such; we'd probably get a BIT more than a 6th round pick for a former All Pro, even coming off another serious injury.

Originally Posted by Joel

Call it what we like, I doubt he accepts $8 million to play next year when legally entitled to >$10 million. Not when so many teams are desperate for blindside QB protection that they'll glady pay that for a former All Pro and hope he's as good as new after surgery. Likewise, after three major injuries in six years, all to the same leg, I doubt his agent's dumb enough to tell him to take a reduced salary with a bunch of incentives he'll never make if hobbled, hurt again or just benched as a shell of a formerly great player.

I'd love to see Clady return if he's his old self, and that would be a bargain at $10 million, whether we're trying to protect an immobile surgically repaired 40-year-old or a guy getting his first NFL starts. But we don't know he WILL be his old self, and have strong reason to doubt it. Regardless, what I'd like and what happens are frequently very divergent because of decisions entirely in the hands of others; negotiations between Elway and Clady (and his agent) are a good example.

Not when you extend his contract and move money around to reduce cap hit and not reduce his guarantee for next year. This happens a lot with older players, polumalu did it recently before he retired. Clady will be paid if he is a FA but not top dollar, probably a little more than Mathis coming off so many injuries. $6 mill probably. He was all pros 4 yrs ago?

Originally Posted by NightTerror218

Not when you extend his contract and move money around to reduce cap hit and not reduce his guarantee for next year. This happens a lot with older players, polumalu did it recently before he retired. Clady will be paid if he is a FA but not top dollar, probably a little more than Mathis coming off so many injuries. $6 mill probably. He was all pros 4 yrs ago?

Maybe; extensions don't really change cap hits, only "extend" them, but sometimes that's good enough since it also effectively extends the cap space available. Given Cladys age, an extension might even work out for everyone: A reasonable 4-3 year deal would likely cover him until retirement. But, if he's never himself again, wouldn't an extension also mean more years of dead money after we released him?

Originally Posted by Joel

Maybe; extensions don't really change cap hits, only "extend" them, but sometimes that's good enough since it also effectively extends the cap space available. Given Cladys age, an extension might even work out for everyone: A reasonable 4-3 year deal would likely cover him until retirement. But, if he's never himself again, wouldn't an extension also mean more years of dead money after we released him?

Look at how Elway does contracts, guarentees are front loaded with later years not guaranteed. Restructures with extentions do change cap hits, not just a normal extension.