Thread: Kubiak to keep Manning in system

Dont have a link on me at the moment but it popped up on my phone not too long ago that there will be no change in game plan or system for Manning at the moment. We are going to approach the Detroit game the same way we did the first two games, etc. Whether or not we have to let Manning loose again or not i guess we will have to see but it appears for the moment that the philosophy will not change.

Originally Posted by Northman

Dont have a link on me at the moment but it popped up on my phone not too long ago that there will be no change in game plan or system for Manning at the moment. We are going to approach the Detroit game the same way we did the first two games, etc. Whether or not we have to let Manning loose again or not i guess we will have to see but it appears for the moment that the philosophy will not change.

Well maybe Denver's start getting some traction offensively because the Lions have been bad the first two weeks of the season.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Well maybe Denver's start getting some traction offensively because the Lions have been bad the first two weeks of the season.

Detroit's been bad since they dumped Bobby Layne, but their D's been consistently good for a while. That said, losing Suh and Fairley so far appears more than Ngata could offset, because when you said that I looked up their defensive stats, and had to double check their opponents completion percentage because I thought it was a misprint:

81.4%

I know it's only through 2 games, the first @Rivers (who's been machine-like since McCoy arrived) and the second with AD running all over them so much Bridgewater only had to throw 18 times, but: Detroits opponents have completed 81.4% of passes against them so far, and yes, that's the NFL highest defensive completion percentage. Put another way, Detroits opponents have only missed 11 passes in 2 games. Rashean Mathis alone has 13 solo tackles so far; you want your defensive players to make lots of tackles, but when a starting CB has lots of solos and NO assists, he's usually giving up lots of catches.

Not saying OUR line can make Anderson or Hillman look like Adrian Peterson nor let Manning rattle off 70% completions like Rivers, but there's cause for optimism. Uncharacteristically, Detroits offense looks better than its D right now, and our D looks REALLY good (though if anyone's figured out how to shutdown Megatron, I've yet to hear about it.) Might not be the week our ground game breaks out though; Detroits defensive rushing average is 17th, about "average," and lower than their norm, but... 48/59 for 538 yds, 3 TDs and 2 Ints, a 108.8 PR. Gotta be careful of Quinn, but otherwise: Light 'em up.

For the curious: OUR passing D is 34/57 (59.6%) for 267 yds, ZERO TDs and FOUR Ints, a (league-best) 45.1 PR In fact, we're (touch wood) the ONLY D still without a passing TD.

Our run Ds stats are bad at present, but mainly coming off a game where Jamaal Charles gashed us for 125 yds, including a 34 yd TD that's the longest play we've allowed so far (OTOH, Wade's using it as a "teaching moment" for Shane Ray: http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-bronc...learning-curve.) Since he "gave up" (i.e. WE FORCED) a fumble when KC was within 5 yds of OUR goal line, then the game-winner at THEIRS, I'm OK with our run D. Forsett did nada for Baltimore, needing 2 more carries to edge Hillman by 2 yards as the games leading rusher (Hillman actually had the games highest average.)

Good. We know that the system that Peyton likes(no huddle shotgun offense) is not sustainable at the end of the season.

This is bad news IMO. if you don't have the personnel to run a system you don't force the issue. Peyton is very rhythm-centric and he's always been. Once he gets going and on a roll, he's very hard to stop and this ruins his pace and tempo. I'm starting to think this will not work with what they have.

It is possible that as a disciple of Shanahan he has a little ego and his way us the best and all players must conform.

I know about them being spent by the end of the year and I get that. But this OLine is horrendous and I don't see how it can drastically improve on the level necessary.

Run the shotgun and attack on defense. THATS what separates this team from the past, a defense that can not only keep u in games but help u win.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

This is bad news IMO. if you don't have the personnel to run a system you don't force the issue. Peyton is very rhythm-centric and he's always been. Once he gets going and on a roll, he's very hard to stop and this ruins his pace and tempo. I'm starting to think this will not work with what they have.

It is possible that as a disciple of Shanahan he has a little ego and his way us the best and all players must conform.

I know about them being spent by the end of the year and I get that. But this OLine is horrendous and I don't see how it can drastically improve on the level necessary.

Run the shotgun and attack on defense. THATS what separates this team from the past, a defense that can not only keep u in games but help u win.

Not to be a d1ck, but how many championships has he won running his offense?

It's time for a change.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

This is bad news IMO. if you don't have the personnel to run a system you don't force the issue. Peyton is very rhythm-centric and he's always been. Once he gets going and on a roll, he's very hard to stop and this ruins his pace and tempo. I'm starting to think this will not work with what they have.

It is possible that as a disciple of Shanahan he has a little ego and his way us the best and all players must conform.

I know about them being spent by the end of the year and I get that. But this OLine is horrendous and I don't see how it can drastically improve on the level necessary.

Run the shotgun and attack on defense. THATS what separates this team from the past, a defense that can not only keep u in games but help u win.

Until/unless the line gets MUCH better 5-wide shotgun bombs and slants won't work any better: NOTHING will. As noted elsewhere, Manning's a big enough football geek to know how important the run is both in itself (tiring their D, resting yours, sidelining THEIR bombers, running out the clock, etc.) and in terms of balance. He doesn't want to throw 3 out of 4 downs any more than Kubiak does, but neither has much choice right now, especially once we fall behind. He also doesn't want to be decapitated because opponents KNOW we can't run OR protect him, so they double cover DT and Sanders, then blitz everyone else.

Give Manning a decent line and I guarantee he'd cheerfully handoff to Anderson (or whoever) till opponents stacked the box and keyed on our RB to stop it, then PA into a 40 yd rainbow TD strike. If only....

Originally Posted by Joel

Detroit's been bad since they dumped Bobby Layne, but their D's been consistently good for a while. That said, losing Suh and Fairley so far appears more than Ngata could offset, because when you said that I looked up their defensive stats, and had to double check their opponents completion percentage because I thought it was a misprint:

81.4%

Maybe I should load up & Denver WRs. I already have Sanders, & MO has Thomas.

Maybe I should grab Jordan Norwood, Andre Caldwell, Wes Welker &/or Cody Latimer just in case they have the game of their careers

I thought this, in last week's press conference kubes also said manning enjoys the bootleg and that they would keep running it.

Both times he has ran it he had missed wr for a decent gain. I don't think he misses three in a row. I do think they should roll him out to the other side though because he looks so uncomfortable rolling out to his left but throwing in-field.

Our run Ds stats are bad at present, but mainly coming off a game where Jamaal Charles gashed us for 125 yds, including a 34 yd TD that's the longest play we've allowed so far (OTOH, Wade's using it as a "teaching moment" for Shane Ray: http://espn.go.com/blog/denver-bronc...learning-curve.) Since he "gave up" (i.e. WE FORCED) a fumble when KC was within 5 yds of OUR goal line, then the game-winner at THEIRS, I'm OK with our run D. Forsett did nada for Baltimore, needing 2 more carries to edge Hillman by 2 yards as the games leading rusher (Hillman actually had the games highest average.)

Hopefully the return of Derek Wolfe in Week 5 will improve the rush D.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

Maybe I should load up & Denver WRs. I already have Sanders, & MO has Thomas.

Maybe I should grab Wes Welker just in case they have the game of their careers

I have never played a penny of fantasy, in fact I despise hearing about it on tv when trying to watch actual nfl news, but in my limited fantasy experience...I would recommend you not sign him

Originally Posted by Joel

Originally Posted by Shazam!

This is bad news IMO. if you don't have the personnel to run a system you don't force the issue. Peyton is very rhythm-centric and he's always been. Once he gets going and on a roll, he's very hard to stop and this ruins his pace and tempo. I'm starting to think this will not work with what they have.

It is possible that as a disciple of Shanahan he has a little ego and his way us the best and all players must conform.

I know about them being spent by the end of the year and I get that. But this OLine is horrendous and I don't see how it can drastically improve on the level necessary.

Run the shotgun and attack on defense. THATS what separates this team from the past, a defense that can not only keep u in games but help u win.

Until/unless the line gets MUCH better 5-wide shotgun bombs and slants won't work any better: NOTHING will. As noted elsewhere, Manning's a big enough football geek to know how important the run is both in itself (tiring their D, resting yours, sidelining THEIR bombers, running out the clock, etc.) and in terms of balance. He doesn't want to throw 3 out of 4 downs any more than Kubiak does, but neither has much choice right now, especially once we fall behind. He also doesn't want to be decapitated because opponents KNOW we can't run OR protect him, so they double cover DT and Sanders, then blitz everyone else.

Give Manning a decent line and I guarantee he'd cheerfully handoff to Anderson (or whoever) till opponents stacked the box and keyed on our RB to stop it, then PA into a 40 yd rainbow TD strike. If only....

But Manning does not have a decent OLine.

Originally Posted by Shazam!

This is bad news IMO. if you don't have the personnel to run a system you don't force the issue. Peyton is very rhythm-centric and he's always been. Once he gets going and on a roll, he's very hard to stop and this ruins his pace and tempo. I'm starting to think this will not work with what they have.

It is possible that as a disciple of Shanahan he has a little ego and his way us the best and all players must conform.

I know about them being spent by the end of the year and I get that. But this OLine is horrendous and I don't see how it can drastically improve on the level necessary.

Run the shotgun and attack on defense. THATS what separates this team from the past, a defense that can not only keep u in games but help u win.

I think Kubiak knows his personnel a thousand times better any of us fans. He and Elway both said the line would be a work in progress. Scrapping the offense just because things have been difficult would be foolish. Kubiak's offense is a rhythm centric offense.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

I think Kubiak knows his personnel a thousand times better any of us fans. He and Elway both said the line would be a work in progress. Scrapping the offense just because things have been difficult would be foolish. Kubiak's offense is a rhythm centric offense.

I give it a couple more weeks of trying his offense before he looks to lean more toward Manning's strengths. I'm not sure how much better the offensive line will get as the season wears on. I know it's a new offense and all but so far I'm unimpressed with Evan Mathis. I just really think that Peyton being under center more and trying to run a ZBS offense is not what he's built to do.

I'm a little torn on this. On one hand, our offense clearly runs better using Manning's system. On the other hand, that system tends to go a little limp-dick once January rolls around. We are still 2-0 (as lucky as it may be) using Kubes' system with Mannin's sprinkled in here and there, so I see no reason not to keep that up for now. If we can get our running game rolling that only helps us in January.