Thread: Former Piston Laimbeer says he would take James over Jordan

Originally Posted by DenBronx

Jordan also had the IT factor. No one in the way was going to beat him on the grand stage. Way too clutch for that. Played with a terrible flu and body was weak but still dominant. Lebron cramps up and leaves the game and is like Casper the friendly ghost in the 4th Q, no where to be found, team couldn't depend on him.

LeBron went to the finals at 23 years of age wih Mo Williams as the second best player on the team and being coached by Mike Brown. Just imagine if he'd had a coach like Phil Jackson and a supporting cast like MJ had as he went throughout his 20s. He'd probably already have 6 rings and be going for more.'

None of the stats you have posted definitively put MJ ahead of James and you can't even argue about the supporting casts.

Does MJ have more accomplishments over his career than James? Yeah. Was he a demonstrably more talented player? That is debatable.

Originally Posted by King87

Jordan has more rings and more MVPs if he doesn't retire early. We know that the Bulls were going to win those titles, and we know that he was the MVP just about every season that he played in. LBJ gets that same treatment, but let's face it, if we were to look at which player was arguably closer to not being the MVP each year, it would be LBJ. Factor in that Jordan played in a tougher league, and that's not up for debate, and with real centers, and it's pretty hard to tell me that LBJ's stat's are equal to Jordan's.

But he did retire early. That shouldn't be held against LeBron in the comparisons.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

You can't compare "years" that's a wholly misleading statistic when Jordan only played 17 games in year 2, missed an entire season in year 9 and only played 17 in year 11. When you look at games, you see Jordan played 919 games by his 14th year in the league and had 8115 free throw attempts. James has played 910 games and has 7730 free throw attempts. Even if you even that out on average for James he would have 7806 in 919 games, 300 short of Jordan in the same number of games.

It was a poor and disengenius argument.

Wow, North sure disappeared from this thread quickly after this post.

Also DenBronx, I find it kinda hilarious when you say this "isn't even a debate" when it clearly is a debate with several reasonable posters and even a former NBA star saying James is very much in the same discussion as Jordan. So either everyone arguing for James is just an idiot, or it actually is a valid debate.

It's pretty clear that you hate LeBron James and will refuse to ever acknowledge anything he ever accomplishes, but that doesn't make you right. It mostly just discredits everything you are saying.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

Wow, North sure disappeared from this thread quickly after this post.

You mean i went to bed? Yea, sleep is important but keep trolling dillweed.


Never the less, both DenBronx and King are crushing you guys while you and MO are trying to spin your arguments to try and retaliate. Its pretty funny to watch in this thread.

Originally Posted by BroncoWave

So either everyone arguing for James is just an idiot,

Hey! You got something right for once! Congrats! lmao

Dillweed, that's a funny word.

Originally Posted by Northman

while you and MO are trying to spin your arguments to try and retaliate. Its pretty funny to watch in this thread.

What exactly am I spinning? Specific examples, please.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

What exactly am I spinning? Specific examples, please.

For starters when i posted the first 11 years of play for both players regardless (minus the time Jordan took off) you wanted to harp on the 17 games thing as if it created this huge disparity when it really didnt. But here is more of you spinning,

I am well aware of why LeBron's counting statistics are higher than Jordan's at a younger age. And it's not LeBron's problem that Jordan quit on his team after a championship in his early 30s and then came back late in the season two years later. That has nothing to do with LeBron. That only affects Jordan's legacy, and its debate able on whether its a positive or a negative.

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Originally Posted by Northman

For starters when i posted the first 11 years of play for both players regardless (minus the time Jordan took off) you wanted to harp on the 17 games thing as if it created this huge disparity when it really didnt. But here is more of you spinning,

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I mean, you understand why posting the first 11 years of both players' careers is problematic, right? Jordan played in 160 less games than James in the first 11 years, that's two full seasons. Don't you think two entire seasons is a disparity?

As to the second quote, what am I spinning? Be specific.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I mean, you understand why posting the first 11 years of both players' careers is problematic, right? Jordan played in 160 less games than James in the first 11 years, that's two full seasons. Don't you think two entire seasons is a disparity?

As to the second quote, what am I spinning? Be specific.

I will go back and look at the 160 games thing, i dont think its that much but maybe im wrong. As to the other quote you are basically admitting that Lebron started at a earlier age but then at the same time trying to discredit that fact. That to me is spinning your stance since you dont want to accept that you could be wrong. Personally, i dont care if you think James is the better player i really dont. I just know from watching both of them that isnt the case for me. Jordan has always been more clutch than James when it mattered but that doesnt mean i think James is a scrub either which i think James fans seem think people are saying when its really not. I actually like Kobe more than James but dont think Kobe is better than Jordan either. I started watching the NBA in 85' and have seen a lot of great players but never saw a player like Jordan who could basically take over at any point when the team needed him to. Ill go back and check on the 160 game thing now.

Originally Posted by Northman

I will go back and look at the 160 games thing, i dont think its that much but maybe im wrong. As to the other quote you are basically admitting that Lebron started at a earlier age but then at the same time trying to discredit that fact. That to me is spinning your stance since you dont want to accept that you could be wrong. Personally, i dont care if you think James is the better player i really dont. I just know from watching both of them that isnt the case for me. Jordan has always been more clutch than James when it mattered but that doesnt mean i think James is a scrub either which i think James fans seem think people are saying when its really not. I actually like Kobe more than James but dont think Kobe is better than Jordan either. I started watching the NBA in 85' and have seen a lot of great players but never saw a player like Jordan who could basically take over at any point when the team needed him to. Ill go back and check on the 160 game thing now.

I still have no clue where you got the free throw numbers, either. According to basketball-reference.com he played in 687 games in 11 years, if you count the year he played minor league baseball as a year and had 6,181 free throws. James played in 224 more games (910) and has 7,730. If you even out Jordan's numbers during those 11 years so that he played the same number of games, he would have 8,196 free throws in the same span.

So, yeah, I'm the one spinning things...

Alright, you were correct MO. I did not notice the games played for the 85-86' season and the games for the 94-95'. So what i did is threw out those years and added the 95-96' and the 97-98' years. But, even with doing that it shows James to have been at the line more than Jordan with James having gone to the line 7730 times and Jordan 7133 times. So while the margin is much closer i cant see how your argument that Jordan got "all the calls" plays into this since it seems James is still getting to the line more than Jordan did. You guys were trying to make it sound like that Jordan was somehow getting an advantage that James isnt getting which doesnt make sense in the scenario you have presented.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I still have no clue where you got the free throw numbers, either. According to basketball-reference.com he played in 687 games in 11 years, if you count the year he played minor league baseball as a year and had 6,181 free throws. James played in 224 more games (910) and has 7,730. If you even out Jordan's numbers during those 11 years so that he played the same number of games, he would have 8,196 free throws in the same span.

So, yeah, I'm the one spinning things...

You cant count the year he played baseball MO. lol he never played in the NBA that year.

Originally Posted by Northman

You cant count the year he played baseball MO. lol he never played in the NBA that year.

Ooops, i ****** up. Your right. I should of added one more year after taking the other two out. That would put Jordan over on FTA's. Its still close so i still cant see the advantage that Jordan got over James here. Both get to the line a lot.