Thread: Manning is not greedy -

Look at it this way. With the rookie salary structure in place, you can afford to restructure Manning and still pay him out for a few years after he retires, while having a young QB on the roster pretty cheap. That offsets the cost of a QB at least until the young guy needs an extension. So, in a way, it balances out.

That's if, if Osweiler is not the quarterback in question Coach. Right now he'll be a free agent and to tag him would cost Denver astronomically under a tag. If not then Denver will likely have a pick outside the Top 20 give that the Broncos at least do well enough to get into the playoffs which is likely then the Broncos will either have to take a third or fourth option in the draft or trade up to nab someone which would likewise cost Denver quite a bit, maybe not fiscally but in roster longevity.

Originally Posted by Lancane

That's if, if Osweiler is not the quarterback in question Coach. Right now he'll be a free agent and to tag him would cost Denver astronomically under a tag. If not then Denver will likely have a pick outside the Top 20 give that the Broncos at least do well enough to get into the playoffs which is likely then the Broncos will either have to take a third or fourth option in the draft or trade up to nab someone which would likewise cost Denver quite a bit, maybe not fiscally but in roster longevity.

I think you're missing something if you think that the Broncos would have to tag Oz in order to keep him. Nobody else is going to be offering him anything like that. Yes, we will have to negotiate something more than the rookie contract, but it's not an either tag him, or he's gone situation.

If Denver offers Oz anything significant, it sends the message that they want him long term. So, you sign him to something for 2-3 years for a raise and let him prove himself. It's a cost friendly deal in a system that he knows and it keeps the QB spot cheap until we know if he's the future and while paying off Manning. If another team comes in and offers something stupid...let him walk and go from there.

The options are actually pretty abundant.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

I think you're missing something if you think that the Broncos would have to tag Oz in order to keep him. Nobody else is going to be offering him anything like that. Yes, we will have to negotiate something more than the rookie contract, but it's not an either tag him, or he's gone situation.

You do know that four teams tried to trade for him last off-season correct? Think about how weak this class is and how quarterback hungry the league is, there is always someone willing to give more even for an unproven commodity or player in this instance. Now if the Broncos can extend him and he accepts it then I think we're good. But do we know if he feels slighted or readily accepts what is going on with Manning? Let's just say that he isn't and that come the off-season he refuses to re-sign and tests the market? I am just saying if Train not will, but think about it. The Browns, Cardinals, Bills, Buccaneers, Texans could all be an option for a shot if he doesn't want to return, again I am not saying that is it, but if it is? We as fans are biased and can not believe a player could want to play elsewhere or be upset with the team enough to move on, but it happens. And if it does, then it does - that is life, but we have no way to know how it will play out till it does.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

If Denver offers Oz anything significant, it sends the message that they want him long term. So, you sign him to something for 2-3 years for a raise and let him prove himself. It's a cost friendly deal in a system that he knows and it keeps the QB spot cheap until we know if he's the future and while paying off Manning. If another team comes in and offers something stupid...let him walk and go from there.

The options are actually pretty abundant.

I agree, but the point of my post is what if he is not that quarterback? Denver will be in somewhat of a bind cause where we will likely fall in the draft come next off-season unless they truly feel Osweiler is the one.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Look at it this way. With the rookie salary structure in place, you can afford to restructure Manning and still pay him out for a few years after he retires, while having a young QB on the roster pretty cheap. That offsets the cost of a QB at least until the young guy needs an extension. So, in a way, it balances out.

I see your point, but that hand-cuffs the next QB somewhat until Peyton's money comes off the books. You could put more talent around the new guy if you aren't paying Manning when he's not even on the roster anymore.

Originally Posted by DenBronx

Hmmm not what I've gathered at all. He doesn't have a history of taking less money....ever.

Well other than he did it in Indy, twice....like it says in the article that this thread is about.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

What's the sarcasm for? I posted this because there is a theme amongst some of the posters that Manning is too greedy to restructure, and that there is no precedent for it. This article dispels that myth.

I personally havent seen any theme among posters here stating he was greedy.

In fact, last year when i brought up the idea of Manning restructuring i was told it wouldnt make a difference with the cap.

Considering one of the people who high fived your last comment was the one stating that it wouldnt make a difference brought a chuckle out of me. Guess Elway and the Broncos felt differently.

I don't see Manning as greedy or he could have asked for more such as Brees and a couple others have who are making 21 plus million a season, and even taking less would not hurt him...he makes 12 million a year in endorsements not to mention the income from his Papa John stores.

Originally Posted by Lancane

That's if, if Osweiler is not the quarterback in question Coach. Right now he'll be a free agent and to tag him would cost Denver astronomically under a tag. If not then Denver will likely have a pick outside the Top 20 give that the Broncos at least do well enough to get into the playoffs which is likely then the Broncos will either have to take a third or fourth option in the draft or trade up to nab someone which would likewise cost Denver quite a bit, maybe not fiscally but in roster longevity.

Denver wont tag Oz.

Originally Posted by Lancane

You do know that four teams tried to trade for him last off-season correct? Think about how weak this class is and how quarterback hungry the league is, there is always someone willing to give more even for an unproven commodity or player in this instance. Now if the Broncos can extend him and he accepts it then I think we're good. But do we know if he feels slighted or readily accepts what is going on with Manning? Let's just say that he isn't and that come the off-season he refuses to re-sign and tests the market? I am just saying if Train not will, but think about it. The Browns, Cardinals, Bills, Buccaneers, Texans could all be an option for a shot if he doesn't want to return, again I am not saying that is it, but if it is? We as fans are biased and can not believe a player could want to play elsewhere or be upset with the team enough to move on, but it happens. And if it does, then it does - that is life, but we have no way to know how it will play out till it does.

Trading is different than paying large sums of money for a player who has not played any meaningful downs. A team can take the risk of trading for a player like Oz but will not pay a huge amount of dollars for him since he has proved nothing at the pro level. People get confused by what happens to guys like Matt Flynn and believe the same will happen with Oz. But they couldnt be more wrong. Futhermore, Oz is currently backing up a future HOF QB, part of one of the best NFL franchises in the league and once Manning goes has the #1 chance to fill his shoes. For a guy like Oz he is in the absolute best position possible. The only way he does make another roster is if Denver does trade him or flat out cuts him. I dont see Denver doing either.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

ITs a QB league. Manning single HANDedly made us Super Bowl contenders by being on the roster. Get rid of Manning, get rid of your chances. Can we possibly find another QB to be 'that guy'... of course. But it takes TIME.. and can take a very long time. Like so many other aspects in life... in sports.. you HAVE to strike while the iron is hot, and its not any hotter than it is now. NOW is the time to make that run/shot for the ring. Brock isn't going to do it. Moving forward with another QB can come later, as it will ALWAYS be an option. Simply accepting defeat and accepting a "rebuilding time" doesn't make sense when you have the personnel to make a serious run. We can make a serious run because we have the QB to make that run. Without that QB, we aren't contenders. It's that simple.

Single handedly?

Originally Posted by Northman

Denver wont tag Oz.

I agree, that is why I brought that up, we actually had some posters say we could tag him...at that price? I think not...lol.

Originally Posted by Northman

Trading is different than paying large sums of money for a player who has not played any meaningful downs. A team can take the risk of trading for a player like Oz but will not pay a huge amount of dollars for him since he has proved nothing at the pro level. People get confused by what happens to guys like Matt Flynn and believe the same will happen with Oz. But they couldnt be more wrong. Futhermore, Oz is currently backing up a future HOF QB, part of one of the best NFL franchises in the league and once Manning goes has the #1 chance to fill his shoes. For a guy like Oz he is in the absolute best position possible. The only way he does make another roster is if Denver does trade him or flat out cuts him. I dont see Denver doing either.

Of course we believe he is in the best position as I said we as fans are biased... But does he believe that? Is he happy with how things have played out? I don't think any of us have that answer. As to the rest, so long as this is a quarterback driven league someone will be willing to overpay, even for an unknown. If Hoyer, Orton and Flynn can find somewhat competent contracts then someone will see him as a probable risk worth a little more cash. He is going to make a little over a million this season with bonuses, etc. So what if he wants a three year 15 million dollar extension to stay? After all, he's seeing others of his draft class making bank, how long do you expect him to play for peanuts? Of course he might be absolutely cool with the situation and he'd return for a million and half a year, but Denver would have to give him more then he is making now probably at least double.

And again, what if they don't see him as the future despite reports to the contrary? I'm not arguing against Manning returning or not, I am saying that should Denver go deep as we expect and we're left needing a quarterback then the Broncos could be in a tough spot. Maybe Elway is okay with a million a year but not more for Osweiler? There could be a hundred reasons why it doesn't go forward as planned, not that I am arguing that it will, just it could cause a precarious position for the club.

Originally Posted by Lancane

But does he believe that? Is he happy with how things have played out?

I guess i dont understand why he would be unhappy or why anyone would come to that conclusion. Its not like he was #1 draft pick and expected to save the franchise. He was taken to backup Manning and either come in when he was hurt or take over when he was done so as long as he has done enough to prove to the organization that he can be the guy. If he is unhappy because he has been sitting and expecting to learn than that is a character issue and all on him. But if he gets butthurt over something like that than i really dont want him on this team. But, NOTHING i have seen or heard has at all lead me to that conclusion.

so long as this is a quarterback driven league someone will be willing to overpay, even for an unknown.

When i see it, ill believe it. I have yet to see a QB with no starting experience get overpaid to start. Especially a 2nd rounder or lower.

If Hoyer, Orton and Flynn can find somewhat competent contracts then someone will see him as a probable risk worth a little more cash.

But again, all those guys have game time experience.

So what if he wants a three year 15 million dollar extension to stay? After all, he's seeing others of his draft class making bank, how long do you expect him to play for peanuts?

Lol, come on Lan. Oz hasnt played. He has no bargaining chip. As someone else pointed out, chances are Denver pays him a little more in case Manning comes back but no team including Denver is going to shovel out millions of dollars for an unknown commodity.

Of course he might be absolutely cool with the situation and he'd return for a million and half a year, but Denver would have to give him more then he is making now probably at least double.

As im sure with all jobs when you have tenure you do tend to get a little raise. But those raises are also based on production and right now the only thing "hypothetically" that Oz has gained is knowledge. As i stated before, he has no bargaining tool because he hasnt really been put to work. He's like a guy at Comcast who takes 12 weeks of training and still gets paid but the pressure of raises and evaluations dont take place until he hits the field on a regular basis.

And again, what if they don't see him as the future despite reports to the contrary? I'm not arguing against Manning returning or not, I am saying that should Denver go deep as we expect and we're left needing a quarterback then the Broncos could be in a tough spot.

Broncos would be in a tough spot anyway. The Broncos are not the Cleveland Browns and dont have the luxury (or not so luxury) of drafting in the top 10 every year. Its going to play out like this,

1) Manning returns and Denver remains a playoff contender/Super Bowl contender, retires, and Oz takes over with the team maybe getting 7-9 wins his first year and becomes the future QB of Denver.

or

2) Manning does the above, retires, Oz sucks, and Denver has to find a vet to keep the ship a float while drafting QB's where and when they can which could mean a possible future moving up the draft to get one.


Point is, the team is still going to have some bump in the roads if Oz takes over or some other QB. Thats what happens when you lose a HOF'r in front of you. After John retired the team went 6-10 but then went 11-5 the following year before losing the SB champs. So even if Denver has a down year i dont expect Elway to let the ship sink for a decade ala Oakland. Just got to have faith that this isnt McDaniels here, its John Mother****ing Elway.