Thread: Patriots being investigated for using deflated balls.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Probably because they've never really had to, before.

In light of admissions by other QBs that they DID tamper with the footballs after the officials had inspected and approved them, the NFL probably should have been doing this before.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

I know you have said that you would be embarrassed as a Patriots fan and as a football fan. But it's this sentence that many patriot fans are holding onto, and its why I pointed out that the rule states that the LEGAL game balls are to be provided by the team. Not every game ball was 'tested'... and it didn't have to be. Its the responsiblity of the team to provide LEGAL footballs to use for the game. If those balls were not legal, then that is the responsibility of the team.

Yes, each team provides their footballs for the game, but Dean Blandino and other NFL personnel have claimed or stated that EVERY game ball is tested. Moreover, the NFL has admitted or claimed that each and every game ball was allegedly tested and found to be legal before the AFCCG.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

But that seems to be the "hope" that many fans are holding onto. "Well, that doesn't prove they cheated, it only means they miscalculated the psi." Or whatevers. Yet, its pretty easy to see that the team either intentionally misled the ref by handing him a legal ball knowing that not ALL balls are individually tested (as they aren't required to be)...or... they were changed while the ONE ball was on the field.

I've never claimed or even suggested that the Pats' miscalculated the psi. However, the NFL's statements disprove your allegation that "not ALL balls are individually tested (as they aren't required to be)" because the NFL has asserted that ALL game balls were tested and are required to be tested. Therefore, if a football team provided footballs to the officials that were either under-inflated or overinflated and the officials failed to properly test the footballs before approving the balls for the game, then in that situation I suspect you would be in the extreme minority to think that was cheating. Almost every player or former player I have heard speak on the issue has essentially said it is only cheating if the team tampers with the footballs AFTER they have been approved by the officials.

I haven't heard anyone, except you now, allege or claim that the Pats deflated the footballs on the sidelines during the game while a different game balls was in play.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Yeah....but it was never really needed.....before. But now it most certainly will have a different rule put into place.

See above for my response to your first point.

Joel and others, although you may disagree, I really don't want to argue about this. I don't mind engaging in a spirited and articulate discussion concerning this or any issue. However, I feel like certain posters are consciously or unconsciously trying to instigate or provoke an argument because they are failing or refusing to acknowledge potential issues I raise or make as well as admissions I make concerning valid points I agree with. I am first a fan of the NFL and therefore the integrity of the game is more important to me than my allegiance to the Patriots. I want and am hoping that the NFL's investigation will definitively establish whether the Pats tampered with the footballs after they were inspected and approved by the officials. I want to avoid circumstantial evidence or ambiguity because I want it to be undisputed that the Pats either didn't tamper with the footballs or did tamper with the footballs.

As a result, I will try to refrain from further discussing this until the NFL releases all the information, test results (if any), and its findings from its investigation.

So you are holding onto the fact that if the refs didn't inspect "each and every ball" that the Patriots are innocent... after all, it "can't be proven." I got ya. I don't blame you guys for holding onto that claim. I don't t hink ANYONE else will ever fall for that "he didn't read me my rights" defense as proof of innocense, but it might buy you the right to say "we weren't convicted" comments afterwards.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

So you are holding onto the fact that if the refs didn't inspect "each and every ball" that the Patriots are innocent... after all, it "can't be proven." I got ya. I don't blame you guys for holding onto that claim. I don't t hink ANYONE else will ever fall for that "he didn't read me my rights" defense as proof of innocense, but it might buy you the right to say "we weren't convicted" comments afterwards.

I'm not holding onto anything. However, if the officials didn't inspect and verify that each and every ball was between 12.5-13.5 psi, there is no way to know whether the Pats did tamper with the footballs after they were approved by the officials. If the officials are required to do that and fail to do so, that is a big issue for the NFL establishing the Pats or any team violated the rules.

For example, the police are required to calibrate their radar guns on a regular basis (don't remember how frequently). If the police officer fails to do so then he/she can't prove or establish how fast any "speeders" they catch using that radar gun were going. Similarly, if the officials didn't check and verify that the psi of all the footballs were between 12.5-13.5, then there is no way to no how much, if any, psi the footballs lost. Again, this point is hypothetical because the NFL has claimed that all footballs were check and verified to be between 12.5-13.5 psi.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

Joel and others, although you may disagree, I really don't want to argue about this. I don't mind engaging in a spirited and articulate discussion concerning this or any issue. However, I feel like certain posters are consciously or unconsciously trying to instigate or provoke an argument because they are failing or refusing to acknowledge potential issues I raise or make as well as admissions I make concerning valid points I agree with. I am first a fan of the NFL and therefore the integrity of the game is more important to me than my allegiance to the Patriots. I want and am hoping that the NFL's investigation will definitively establish whether the Pats tampered with the footballs after they were inspected and approved by the officials. I want to avoid circumstantial evidence or ambiguity because I want it to be undisputed that the Pats either didn't tamper with the footballs or did tamper with the footballs.

As a result, I will try to refrain from further discussing this until the NFL releases all the information, test results (if any), and its findings from its investigation.

Fair enough, but, at great expense of brevity, I make a point of acknowledging and addressing each potential issue raised in posts to which I respond, and have here: The math doesn't check on the weather issue, and 11 of NEs balls tested below the legal limit by more than the legal margin, so it's also impossible Indys balls started at the high and NEs the low end of legal pressure only for weather to lower NEs >1 PSI below the legal minimum while Indys remained legal. It's not that everyone ignoring those points: It's that everyone objectively considering them has proven them PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

That is, even conceding the possibility of an as yet unknown and unstated but reasonable and legal explanation for why NEs balls—and ONLY theirs—deflated below the legal limit, they WERE deflated: That's inevitable scientific fact because "when one eliminates the impossible, whatever remains, however" SHAMEFUL "must be the truth." I'll just save Pats fans some time: The phrase ya'll are looking for is "A few days ago, I told the American people we did not deflate balls for wins. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and evidence tell me it is not."

Also please note for the record I've voiced agreement on a point of such (i.e. that refs should never have been giving balls back to teams after inspection anyway, because it both invites illegal tampering and exacerbates it by making detection VERY difficult: An opponent raising suspisions after a turnover is about the only way anyone COULD be caught; just because that difficult detection never previously occurred did not prove the policy any less severely vulnerable to abuse.)

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

I'm not holding onto anything. However, if the officials didn't inspect and verify that each and every ball was between 12.5-13.5 psi, there is no way to know whether the Pats did tamper with the footballs after they were approved by the officials. If the officials are required to do that and fail to do so, that is a big issue for the NFL establishing the Pats or any team violated the rules.

Seems like you are just splitting hairs about where they cheated, not whether or not they did. They either didn't provide legal balls in the first place, or tampered. Or Aliens.

Just because the radar gun is faulty, doesn't mean you weren't speeding.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

I'm not holding onto anything. However, if the officials didn't inspect and verify that each and every ball was between 12.5-13.5 psi, there is no way to know whether the Pats did tamper with the footballs after they were approved by the officials. If the officials are required to do that and fail to do so, that is a big issue for the NFL establishing the Pats or any team violated the rules.

For example, the police are required to calibrate their radar guns on a regular basis (don't remember how frequently). If the police officer fails to do so then he/she can't prove or establish how fast any "speeders" they catch using that radar gun were going. Similarly, if the officials didn't check and verify that the psi of all the footballs were between 12.5-13.5, then there is no way to no how much, if any, psi the footballs lost. Again, this point is hypothetical because the NFL has claimed that all footballs were check and verified to be between 12.5-13.5 psi.

As long as the gauges were calibrated for the halftime reading, the balls were then <11½ PSI (not the 12½+ legal lower bound) and the refs in the clear. Beyond that the debate's not WHETHER the Pats cheated, only WHEN they should've been caught. In the speeding analogy, it's like saying, "Maybe I was doing 50 before you clocked me at 70 in a 55." Yeah, maybe—LATER doing 70 in a 55 was STILL illegal.

PHOENIX -- The NFL is conducting a "serious" and "thorough" investigation into the deflation of footballs in the AFC Championship Game, commissioner Roger Goodell said Friday, but there have been "no judgments made" against the New England Patriots or any of their employees.

The league previously announced that 11 of the Patriots' 12 game footballs were found at halftime to be below the league's mandate of 12.5 psi. Ted Wells, the NFL's outside investigator, is attempting to determine why the balls were used in the first half and if it was "the result of deliberate action," Goodell said.

"We don't know enough in this case to know who is responsible or if there was an infraction," he added.

Whether the Patriots gained a competitive advantage is "secondary," Goodell said, to whether a rule was broken.

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014...was-deliberate

As with everything about Super Bowl XLIX, this year’s version of the NFL’s annual showcase event, the league is leaving nothing to chance with the footballs that each team’s offense will use in the big game. These footballs are prepared as they would be for any other game, with a few additional steps to ensure that they are game time ready.

After the conference championship games end, Wilson ships 54 game footballs to each of the participating Super Bowl teams. The teams are allowed to prepare and practice with these footballs until the Friday before the Super Bowl. Each team’s quarterback can prepare the footballs to suit his preferences — as long as his preferences comply with league specifications, rules and policies.

On the Friday before the game, the league designated equipment manager (EM) collects the prepared game footballs from each team. He inspects them to make sure they are in game condition and are free of anything that would make them unfit for game action.

rest - http://operations.nfl.com/updates/th...ix-game-balls/

Did yall hear the Cheatriots tampered with LaSuckerpunch Blount to get him to douche his way out of Pittsburgh?

Originally Posted by Jaded

Did yall hear the Cheatriots tampered with LaSuckerpunch Blount to get him to douche his way out of Pittsburgh?

Lol this made me me laugh a lot!

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

rest - http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2014...was-deliberate

Billions of dollars at your disposal, millions in your pocket to do a job and you can't get an investigation done in a timely manner. You sir, are a fraud. Tagliabue has your # and he appears more right in his opinion day after day.

Originally Posted by GEM

Billions of dollars at your disposal, millions in your pocket to do a job and you can't get an investigation done in a timely manner. You sir, are a fraud. Tagliabue has your # and he appears more right in his opinion day after day.

It's intentional because it happened in AFCCG Goodell wasn't going to have anything done until after the Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by MNPatsFan

Agreed, this is the issue I am hoping and waiting to have resolved. Ideally, the investigation will definitively determine whether the weather could have caused the psi of the footballs to decrease by 1-2 psi.

It's already a matter of scientific fact Pasty fans just don't how to deal with reality.

MN - Didn't the official's already say all the balls were tested? Is there some reason other than pure speculation to ask if the balls were actually tested?