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Thread: Browns player defends wearing shirt

  1. #16

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    He wore a shirt about two deaths at the hand of the police that are highly suspicious. If you take issue with that then you're being overly sensitive and weak. The police taking issue with this look like morons. Earlier in this thread someone made the classic misdirection attempt of changing the topic with 'I want justice for the blah blah damn thugs' as if wanting real criminals punished and taking issue with these incidents exist in a dichotomy.

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  3. #17
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    What is suspicious about the shooting death of Tamir Rice? It is undisputed that 911 callers reported a he was "pulling a gun in and out of his pants and pointing it at people" and that the orange safety indicator had been removed so that the air soft gun looked like a real gun, not a toy. Moreover, Tamir either reached for the gun or refused to raise his hands when instructed to do so by the police. I'm sorry, but when I am instructed to do something by the police, I do it immediately because routine situations can turn violent and deadly instantly. Early this fall, a police officer here conducted a routine traffic stop on a white guy who pulled a gun and shot the cop dead.

    In my opinion, anyone who is stupid enough to be playing with a toy gun that looks real and then refuses to reasonably raise his hands when instructed to do so, let alone allegedly reach for the toy gun is asking for trouble. Some people who are more cynical than me might even claim that Darwin's theory worked to perfection.
    Too bad she doesn't cheer for the Patriots dressed like this

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  5. #18

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    The police started lying about that incident very quickly. You're a big boy with Google powers, I'm sure you can find that information. I also don't respect the notion that if a cop sees a young child with a gun that the cop needs to shot the kid instantly, which is what he did.

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  7. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    The police started lying about that incident very quickly. You're a big boy with Google powers, I'm sure you can find that information. I also don't respect the notion that if a cop sees a young child with a gun that the cop needs to shot the kid instantly, which is what he did.
    I'm not claiming the police haven't lied about somethings, but are you claiming that:
    1) The 911 recording doesn't contain one or more 911 callers reporting that Tamir Rice was "pulling a gun in and out of his pants and pointing it at people"?
    2) The orange safety indicator had not been removed from the barrel of the air soft gun so that it looked like a real gun, not a toy?
    3) Young teenagers with/holding a gun aren't capable of shooting or won't shoot people or police officers?

    If your answer is yes to any of the above, then please explain the factual basis for your answer.

    If your answer, however, is no to all the above, then imho anyone who refuses to reasonably raise his/her hands when instructed to do so by a police officer, let alone allegedly reaching for a gun, is severely lacking in common sense and is asking for serious trouble. With that being said, I fully support the actions of the police officers being investigated to determine whether he/they acted improperly under the circumstances and being disciplined accordingly if he/they did act improperly.
    Too bad she doesn't cheer for the Patriots dressed like this

  8. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by MNPatsFan View Post
    I'm not claiming the police haven't lied about somethings, but are you claiming that:
    1) The 911 recording doesn't contain one or more 911 callers reporting that Tamir Rice was "pulling a gun in and out of his pants and pointing it at people"?
    2) The orange safety indicator had not been removed from the barrel of the air soft gun so that it looked like a real gun, not a toy?
    3) Young teenagers with/holding a gun aren't capable of shooting or won't shoot people or police officers?

    If your answer is yes to any of the above, then please explain the factual basis for your answer.

    If your answer, however, is no to all the above, then imho anyone who refuses to reasonably raise his/her hands when instructed to do so by a police officer, let alone allegedly reaching for a gun, is severely lacking in common sense and is asking for serious trouble. With that being said, I fully support the actions of the police officers being investigated to determine whether he/they acted improperly under the circumstances and being disciplined accordingly if he/they did act improperly.
    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/727529...olice-shooting


    Apparently the cop said to put his hands up in literally two seconds - the same two seconds that he shot the kid in.

  9. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/727529...olice-shooting


    Apparently the cop said to put his hands up in literally two seconds - the same two seconds that he shot the kid in.
    I've seen that video and yes it looks bad because of how quickly the police officer shoots Tamir Rice, which is why I fully support an investigation of the police officer's actions. However, I'm not going to judge the cop's actions solely off that video because: (1) can't determine whether the passenger window of police car was down/open and officer spoke to Tamir Rice before getting out of the car (still only adds a second or two) or (2) whether Tamir Rice reached for the gun in the waist band of his pants. Investigation will hopefully reveal whether Tamir was merely lifting his sweatshirt to display what was in his waist band pursuant to question/request of police officer or was reaching for the gun.

    Fact that Tamir was shot so quickly is irrelevant if Tamir was reaching for the gun because the police officer then must react immediately in what appears to be life threatening situation. Again, not saying that is what happened because impossible for me to determine what happened.

    I just think that people should wait for a situation to be investigated and the true facts and actions ascertained before they put on t-shirts supporting or condemning something - Duke Lacrosse rape allegations, Richard Jewell (Atlanta Olympics bombing suspect), etc.
    Too bad she doesn't cheer for the Patriots dressed like this

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  11. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/727529...olice-shooting


    Apparently the cop said to put his hands up in literally two seconds - the same two seconds that he shot the kid in.
    king... these cops deal with scumbags of all ages every day. They are not going to take anything lightly, they can't because if they do, it could mean their life. They are paid to keep peace and get the idiots off the street. If a kid is being an idiot and pulling a gun on people, he needs to either do what he's told or get shot, they cant take the chance that its a fake. Why is a kid pulling a gun and pointing it at people? The kid was obviously a half-wit and for all we know that cop just killed a future rapist or serial killer. If you want to take it the other way and say he may have been the future president, well maybe, but I dont think the future president is dumb enough to be pulling a fake gun on people and then not listening to police.


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    Put your hands *bang bang* up.

  13. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by weazel View Post
    king... these cops deal with scumbags of all ages every day. They are not going to take anything lightly, they can't because if they do, it could mean their life. They are paid to keep peace and get the idiots off the street. If a kid is being an idiot and pulling a gun on people, he needs to either do what he's told or get shot, they cant take the chance that its a fake. Why is a kid pulling a gun and pointing it at people? The kid was obviously a half-wit and for all we know that cop just killed a future rapist or serial killer. If you want to take it the other way and say he may have been the future president, well maybe, but I dont think the future president is dumb enough to be pulling a fake gun on people and then not listening to police.
    None of that excuses incidents like these, and furthermore that's just another reason to re-look police training.

  14. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/24/727529...olice-shooting


    Apparently the cop said to put his hands up in literally two seconds - the same two seconds that he shot the kid in.
    From all I have read, the kid was ordered to raise his hands. Instead, he reached into his waistband.

    Hindsight is wonderful, but you sound like so many of the protesters who seem to think the cops should wait until they are fired upon or hit before reacting!

    If y'all think the cops have an such easy job to do, I suggest you grab a gun and stand the post. Then let's see how much forbearance you display when it's your life on the line.

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  16. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Runamok View Post
    From all I have read, the kid was ordered to raise his hands. Instead, he reached into his waistband.

    Hindsight is wonderful, but you sound like so many of the protesters who seem to think the cops should wait until they are fired upon or hit before reacting!

    If y'all think the cops have an such easy job to do, I suggest you grab a gun and stand the post. Then let's see how much forbearance you display when it's your life on the line.

    Well I certainly hope that the place you heard it from wasn't from the police, because on this topic they already shredded their credibility.

    You don't get to destroy my credibility by lumping me in with people -by using a buzzword- and you would do better to actually address the argument. Because if the cop runs in there and shoots the kid in two seconds, sorry, he failed at his job. These sorts of things are not inevitable - in two seconds do you really expect a kid to be perfect and seamlessly obey - especially since he's probably not expecting the cops because the child isn't doing anything wrong- and is that a realistic expectation.

    Your third line is just pure rhetoric and adds nothing to the conversation. Maybe the officers should display forbearance when the person is a child, who was reported as probably having a toy gun, and not being killed two seconds into the 'conflict', but hey, why look at tragic issues that happen with regularity and try to actually improve the situation, right? Because clearly if you really believe that officers have to rush into a situation like this and shoot their weapons immediately then your vantage point requires you to believe in some really ridiculous things.

    Yesterday and perhaps the day before it broke that witness 40, the most pivotal witness for Wilson outside of himself -and he should never have been allowed to testify- is insane and almost certainly lied about everything. Wilson should have, by law, gone to trial, and many people who are uneducated on the topic believe otherwise because there is witness conflict -duh, that's actually the reason to go to trial- which is maddening. Then we have the man who was choked to death by the police, a blatant violation of the law and no indictment. Now we have a dead little boy who had no real weapon, who was breaking no law, who appears to have been shot almost instantly, and might have been killed because a 12 year old wasn't perfect in his obeying of the police.

    No reasonable person is going to take all of this at face value and then ignore the other damning statistics and just say "hey, it has to be this way." No, it actually doesn't, and just because your -maybe not literally you- limitations stop you from understanding that doesn't mean you get to call down others because they happen to be more cognizant of issues in this country than you are. People declare that Hawkins doesn't know what he's talking about? Please, the only difference between Hawkins and many of the people who disagree with him is that their questionable thoughts won't fit on a ******* t-shirt.

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  18. #27
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    Has it been addressed if the police were using their speaker before they pulled up? Just curious.

    Also King, the 911 dispatcher to the police did not tell them it could be a toy gun. They were just told there was a male in the park with a gun.

  19. #28

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    Two seconds, Joe. Two seconds. The dispatcher is definitely at fault as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King87 View Post
    Two seconds, Joe. Two seconds. The dispatcher is definitely at fault as well.
    I understand, King. You still didn't answer my question. Has it been established if they were warning the potential perpetrator as they were pulling up via the car's speaker system?

    Just asking a question.

  21. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by BroncoJoe View Post
    I understand, King. You still didn't answer my question. Has it been established if they were warning the potential perpetrator as they were pulling up via the car's speaker system?

    Just asking a question.
    I have not read that either way. I will look for it since my finals are over now.

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