Thread: Schlereth on O-line: "They need to fire them all and start over"

Originally Posted by Cugel

You do realize that's like asking Charlie Brown's baseball team to "grow a pair and toughen up?" They are just not capable of doing that. At some point you are what you are. They are soft and floundering. This has the feeling of a ship that is sinking fast. Maybe they get it sorted this week. But, if they lose this week and then go into a buzz saw at KC who has the NFL's #1 pass-defense. Oh, boy! EDIT: What would be the point of yelling and getting tough with the players? Do you think the coaches have been sugar-coating the lack of intensity on the OL? You know they've been ripping guys in meetings. It just hasn't produced any results. And as Tony Dungy said, you can't just verbally assault a player who gets physically beat, because he's already down. You just have to hold guys accountable and if they don't respond, then at the end of the season you move on and get some new guys. Problem is that at this point they can't get new guys.

Yes dad. Sorry dad. I won't have an opinion again dad.

Interesting stuff from Twitter. I wonder if this will motivate them?

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 14m14 minutes ago

The entire starting Broncos O-line talked w/ media today. Other than at a Super Bowl media availability, that hasn't happened in 2 decades.

Mike Klis ‏@MikeKlis 13m13 minutes ago

Unprecedented day in Broncos locker room. All 5 starting OL took turns meeting with media mob. Under siege, they stepped up and owned it.

Andrew Mason ‏@MaseDenver 7m7 minutes ago

Franklin was definitely defiant. All were matter-of-fact and candid. RT @martynrich: @MaseDenver What was their mood? Positive? Defiant?

Vic Lombardi ‏@VicLombardi 11m11 minutes ago

Whoa. Someone got to the Broncos O-line. Each starter meeting with the media. Hear their comments on CBS4 at 5 and 6.

Maybe Franklin should try to go one game without drawing a penalty before he gets defiant in the media.

Originally Posted by Cugel

At some point you have to stop tinkering with the OL and just go with what you have. They moved Franklin for a reason. He sucked at pass-protection last year. Last year teams hadn't figured out how to defense the Broncos offense. But, the Seahawks showed the world how you shut them down, and now even teams like the Rams are doing it.

That's it in a nutshell: All the moves certainly haven't helped, but it's not simply that they made our line so much worse than last year; it was just as bad then, but fewer teams realized it. They're not doing anything they didn't do last year or the year before; the only difference is instead of me and a few other people complaining about it, now EVERYONE is.

Originally Posted by Cugel

You can't move Franklin back to RT and expect anything good to happen. The already have far too many changes on the OL. Nor can they bring in Incognito. That's just "praying for rain."

Incognito's an awful human being, but an All Pro LG; more to the point, he's far better than any other option we have there, Franklin included. I don't expect good things to come of Franklin returning to RT—but I would expect him to do better there than EVERYONE who's manned that spot since. If there were a former All Pro RT sitting by his phone, I'd say call him, but there's not, so Franklin's the least bad of our few awful options there; regardless, Incognito would significantly and instantly improve LG. One guy can't fill three gaping holes, but can fill ONE, and should.

Originally Posted by Cugel

If they can somehow manage to win this home game things will calm down. But, if, and I'd say it's 50-50, they manage to lose, or worse get embarrassed at home, then all bets are off for this season.

All bets are off regardless, because this problem's not going away just because we beat an above average team at home: The playoffs are fast approaching, and it's no longer a given we'll be there, but IF we are, we won't be there long unless we get our line sorted—especially if we ever go on the road. If we go back to Foxborough this year, that may just be the end of the Manning Era.

Originally Posted by Cugel

John Elway made a huge blunder in not fixing this problem during the off-season, and thinking they could just get by with the OL personnel they already had. I thought that was a very questionable assumption during the summer, but I assumed they knew what they were doing. Apparently not, because they thought a lot more of Chris Clark than he's shown. And Manny Ramirez hasn't done anything since moving back to guard. And asking Louis Vasquez to play RT when he's never done it is a bit much.

Well, I spent the whole offseason SCREAMING for a guard in a draft AND free agent pool thick with top guards, but it did no good and vindication's as unsatisfying as one would expect. We can't turn back the clock, only make the best of a situation so bad it cost us a SB, and try not to think what it says about a FO that KNEW that and did NOTHING about it despite a wealth of great opportunities.

Originally Posted by Cugel

If Incognito was a RT, as much as I hate that douche-bag I'd say grit your teeth and bring him in. But, G isn't their worst problem. RT is.

Debatable, but, much as in the last draft and free agency period, guards where the talent happens to be. Another reason I wanted to chase a top guard last offseason is that we have a lot more OTs than Gs; they may not be GREAT OTs, but right now the next man up at G is a converted DT who's spent most of his NFL career on active Air Force duty. As noted elsewhere, I don't WANT Incognito, but we NEED him; if there were a comparable RT looking for work, I'd say snatch him up, too, but there's not, and we're more likely to find one decent OT among the many on our roster than one decent G among our few.

Originally Posted by Buff

Maybe Franklin should try to go one game without drawing a penalty before he gets defiant in the media.

Franklin's been amazingly pissy all year for a guy who's played WORSE in EACH of his four seasons so far. He fired off an angry tweet last spring when they told him he was moving to G, groused on Denver radio about Incognitos tryout last week, and now he's "defiant" in this weeks locker room interviews? Instead of complaining about a move to less lucrative position in a contract year, he better get focused on playing SOME position well enough to GET another contract—from ANYONE. If he were as "defiant" with DTs and DEs, he might not need to be with reporters.

have you seen "frozen"

Well, "let it go"

Originally Posted by Joel

Well, I spent the whole offseason SCREAMING for a guard in a draft AND free agent pool thick with top guards, but it did no good and vindication's as unsatisfying as one would expect. We can't turn back the clock, only make the best of a situation so bad it cost us a SB, and try not to think what it says about a FO that KNEW that and did NOTHING about it despite a wealth of great opportunities.

I'll probably regret asking, but what exactly would you have done in the offseason? I assume you would have kept Clady and Vasquez. Anyone else? Because if we were going to spend FA dollars on a guard, and draft one in the first or second, what WOULDN'T we have this year? There's opportunity cost associated with your master plan. We could have paid a FA guard 3 years, 15 million and then not have Sanders. We could have drafted Su'a-Filo or someone of that ilk but then not had Roby. Our line would probably be better, but then wouldn't you complain about another area where we were weaker than last year?

Joel quoting Cugel is about enough to make me start drinking

Originally Posted by Joel

Franklin's been amazingly pissy all year for a guy who's played WORSE in EACH of his four seasons so far. He fired off an angry tweet last spring when they told him he was moving to G, groused on Denver radio about Incognitos tryout last week, and now he's "defiant" in this weeks locker room interviews? Instead of complaining about a move to less lucrative position in a contract year, he better get focused on playing SOME position well enough to GET another contract—from ANYONE. If he were as "defiant" with DTs and DEs, he might not need to be with reporters.

YEah.. I"m sure it's because he's not 'focused' on doing his job.... that's the problem.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

Joel quoting Cugel is about enough to make me start drinking

I am drinking. Thank God I have Joek on ignore.

My first choices would've been to sign Asamoah or Geoff Schwartz, both excellent guards (one with starting OT experience) and both playing for around $2 million/yr with their new teams.

I don't follow college, so I'm no draftnik, but by all accounts Su'a-Filo would've been a good choice. As well as Roby's played, Webster was good last year and is reportedly better now; far more importantly, Webster didn't cost us last years SB: Our abysmal line did, and is threatening to keep us from even REACHING this years SB. I also recall many people talking up Gabe Jackson, David Yankey and Cyril Richardson; again, I must rely on second hand scouting since I don't watch college ball, but the last draft was reportedly deep at a position where we'd already demonstrated need.

Paying $2 million for Asamoah or—even AND—Schwartz wouldn't have stopped us getting Ward, Ware or Talib (for one thing, Rotoworld says we're paying Montgomery $1.3, with another $½ million incentives: Anyone think Montgomery's worth as much as Asamoah? Because we're PAYING him like he is.) If we'd drafted Su'a-Filo, I'd miss Roby, sure, but not as much as I miss Su'a-Filo since we drafted Roby.

Keep in mind: Those are just the options a cursory offseason scan revealed; I have no doubt a GM with Elways connections and football savvy plus access to the Broncos scouts could've found more IF he wanted—he didn't, so he, we and everyone else must live with and adapt to those consequences as best we can. We (or at least I) am talking about GUARDS here; probably the least lucrative spot an NFL roster: Teams can get good ones without breaking the bank; they just have to want one.

Well sure....but you read the book.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

YEah.. I"m sure it's because he's not 'focused' on doing his job.... that's the problem.

Alternatively, we can believe he's riveted on his job but simply INCAPABLE of doing it; is that more reassuring...?

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Well sure....but you read the book.

Ironically, it has a line like that, in a sidebar on how Denver screwed itself by not going for it on 4th down inside the 'Skins 10 early in SB XXII, instead settling for a FG and a 10-0 lead, after which Washington ran off 42 unanswered points and that was the final. Maybe it was just kicking karma; during the authors rant against the PAT, they also noted Washington missing a PAT against Denver the previous year clinched the AFCW for us and the NFCE for the eventual champion Giants.

Not that that has anything to do with last years draft; while that book DOES have very enlightening and well supported observations about the draft, I'm pretty sure that's not why you brought it up here.

Originally Posted by Joel

Alternatively, we can believe he's riveted on his job but simply INCAPABLE of doing it; is that more reassuring...?

but more realistic. Perhaps you can pull out your book and can tell the coaches on how to teach him better?