Thread: Broncos open contract negotiations with Chris Harris

Clearly this is big news on the Free Agent front. After years of stating that the team doesn't do negotiations during the season, the Broncos are opening contract negotiations with CB Chris Harris, seeking to extend him to a long-term contract.

The Broncos have opened contract extension negotiations with cornerback Chris Harris, according to NFL sources.

One of the team's most pleasant surprises since the Broncos signed him to a mere $2,000 bonus as an undrafted rookie out of Kansas in 2011, Harris is eligible for unrestricted free agency after this season.

What kind of contract would it take for the Broncos to secure Harris for the long term? Based on how he's been graded by Pro Football Focus, Harris doesn't have to be shy about his asking price. Entering the Broncos' Week 10 game Sunday at Oakland, Harris has the third-best overall rating among NFL cornerbacks, behind the Indianapolis Colts' Vontae Davis and San Diego's Brandon Flowers.

This comes as a total shock to me. I have argued that the Broncos intended to let Chris Harris go at the end of the season. All the signs were pointing in that direction. Here's why.

1. The logical time to have re-signed Harris in 2013. At that point they could probably have re-negotiated his contract and given him a hefty raise, but still a LOT less than what he will command on the open market.

His 2014 salary is $2.178million. He's clearly a top 10 CB, perhaps a bit worse than Aquib Talib, but among the league leaders - so he would probably be the highest priced defensive FA in the NFL next season. He's a true #1 CB and those are rare and every team needs one.

Aquib Talib signed a 6 year, $57 million contract with $26 million guaranteed, including a $5 million bonus, so that means as a FA, Harris would almost certainly generate a contract north of $50 million, with at least $20+ million guaranteed. Say, perhaps $53 million, with $23 million guaranteed or something. It could be more than that.

2. The Broncos refused to pay Harris what he was clearly worth in 2012 and 2013 after he outplayed his contract. He wants maximum $ now, and he's going to get it. So, almost certainly no "home team discount". The Broncos screwed him basically for 2 years and now is his pay-day.

3. Having used a #1 draft pick on Reggie Roby, the team has to start him. He's looked pretty good so far as a rookie, and projects to becoming a future #1 CB at some point in the next few years. Then there's Kayvon Webster, whom they like (although I don't think he's anything special).

4. The team has failed to sign Demaryius or Julius, and those guys are going to be extremely expensive. Demaryius will get north of $13 million a year. It looks like he wants to be paid Megatron money, or something close to it -- i.e. about $14+ million a year. He would certainly get it in FA. He's a total beast as a WR, a game breaking receiver that all teams are looking for in this pass-happy NFL. He's clearly a top 5 WR along with guys like Julio Jones or Dez Bryant. He probably wants an average salary higher than Larry Fitzgerald's. Larry got:

Larry Fitzgerald signed a 7 year / $113 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals, including a $10,000,000 signing bonus, $27,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $16,142,857.

However, this is misleading since nearly $45 million of this contract is in the last 3 years and he's never going to get that money (not guaranteed). In reality he's been paid 4 years, $55 million, or an average of $13.75. Demaryius should get slightly more than this - perhaps 5 years for $70 million or something, with $30 million guaranteed.

The Broncos are not going to do this. It looks more and more like they will franchise him, which they can do and he'd earn about $13 million or something. That way they don't commit to him long-term after Peyton's retirement when the team will have to re-build. But, they can only franchise 1 player.

Julius Thomas is likely to earn about $9+ million average for maybe 5 years, so perhaps $45 million? So, combined maybe $22 million between just these two players. This is speculative, but the reasoning is based on what comparable players have already gotten - which means it could be MORE, not less.

Then there's Wes Welker, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving, Brandon Marshall and Pot Roast -- all of whom become UFAs next season. Worse, they have to try and negotiate a new contract for Von Miller who will become a FA after 2015 season. Wes is clearly gone, but they want to keep the rest.

He is the most athletic LB since Derrick Thomas and the Broncos have Zero intent to let him go. He'd get just an insane amount of money in FA so they can't let him play out his contract next season and then try to compete with other teams, nor will they want to franchise him. They want to keep him long-term.

Given all that I can't see how they can afford Chris Harris. But, clearly they mean to try and I applaud them for doing it. Chris has clearly earned his money, I'm just surprised they would contemplate doing this during the season.

Does this mean they might let either D.T. or Julius walk? I don't know.

But, clearly they can't re-sign everybody. There just isn't enough money under the cap to do that.

I didn't realize Talibs contract was so long; now I REALLY wish we'd re-signed DRC (whom I preferred anyway.) With Harris, Webster looking promising last year and Roby ready to start Opening Day of his rookie year, we'd have an excellent long term starting trio without Talib and need little more than quality depth for dime and injuries, $10 million/yr for 6 years eats up a lot of cap space for a long time. The Giants are paying DRC less per year for one LESS year, and probably not wondering how many games he'll be out hurt due to his style of play. Harris is my favorite Bronco though, so I hope we find a way to do this.

I just hope it doesn't cost us too many other irreplaceable players (most notably/imminently, DT, whom I'd hate to franchise and have to re-sign while finding room to pay Von Miller, too.) You're right all our moves to this point strongly suggested Harris' departure, and that it would've been cheaper to do this last year or the year before instead of just giving him a tender. Guess even Elway's not perfect. It's hard to say no to this though:

Quarterbacks have a 41.4 passer rating when targeting Harris Jr.Last week he shut down Julian Edelman and Brandon LaFell to the tune of 47 yards on 6 catches. He has yet to allow a touchdown on the season.

It seemed like EVERYONE caught a TD last week—but apparently NO ONE caught one while covered by Harris (although LaFell DID help our D out a few times....) Doesn't take much to figure out who WAS covering Edelman on his TDs, and it seems kind of foolish to pay that 28-year-old $10 million/yr for 6 seasons while letting a better 25-year-old walk.

Originally Posted by Joel

I didn't realize Talibs contract was so long; now I REALLY wish we'd re-signed DRC (whom I preferred anyway.)

What? The way Talib's contract is structured (and most contracts nowadays, to be honest), we can cut him after THIS SEASON and have only $4 million in dead money. That number decreases by $1 million every year. I'm not saying we'd do that now, obviously, but we're not locked into anything long term with him. Conversely, if the Giants cut DRC after this year, they have a $9.25 million dead money cap hit. Elway knows what he's doing.

I'm also surprised people are surprised by us wanting to bring back Harris. Maybe the timing is a little odd, but did you really think we'd let him walk without at least attempting to get him to stay? This isn't Decker or Moreno. The Broncos know his value, and obviously want him long term.

Originally Posted by VonDoom

What? The way Talib's contract is structured (and most contracts nowadays, to be honest), we can cut him after THIS SEASON and have only $4 million in dead money. That number decreases by $1 million every year. I'm not saying we'd do that now, obviously, but we're not locked into anything long term with him. Conversely, if the Giants cut DRC after this year, they have a $9.25 million dead money cap hit. Elway knows what he's doing.

Ah, OK, I feel better then; Elway does know what he's doing (except on the line. ) I really can't make sense of what Rotoworld says about his contract: It says $26 million's guaranteed by a $5 million signing bonus plus a $2 million roster bonus this year, but even with the $4.5 million base for this year that only comes to $11½ million—where's the other $14 million and change...?

If we can cut him after a year or two for a marginal cap hit though, that would be more than fine with me unless something happens to Harris, Roby or Webster. He turns 29 right around this years SB, and playing physically at a speed position he's likely to go downhill fast after 30 (he's had more than his share of injuries already.)

Originally Posted by VonDoom

I'm also surprised people are surprised by us wanting to bring back Harris. Maybe the timing is a little odd, but did you really think we'd let him walk without at least attempting to get him to stay? This isn't Decker or Moreno. The Broncos know his value, and obviously want him long term.

Wanting and doing what it takes are two different things though, and it sure seemed like we were setting up to have Talib, Roby and Webster long term. Nothing short of a SB would please me better than locking up Harris as our shutdown CB for the next half dozen years though.

Here's a breakdown of Talib's contract:

Aqib Talib
Cornerback
6 years
28 years old
Drafted: Round 1 (#20 overall), 2008
College: Kansas
Broncos:
Current Salary Information

Aqib Talib signed a 6 year / $57 million contract with the Denver Broncos, including a $5,000,000 signing bonus, $25,500,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $9,500,000.
Contract: 6 yr(s) / $57,000,000 Signing Bonus $5,000,000 Average Salary $9,500,000 Guaranteed: $25,500,000 Free Agent: 2020 / Unrestricted
Year Base Signing Bonus Roster Bonus Option Bonus Workout Bonus Restruc. Bonus Incentive Cap Hit Dead

2014 4,500,000 1,000,000 2,406,250 - - - - 7,906,250 11,500,000
2015 5,500,000 1,000,000 500,000 - - - - 7,000,000 4,000,000
2016 8,500,000 1,000,000 500,000 - - - - 10,000,000 3,000,000
2017 11,000,000 1,000,000 - - - - - 12,000,000 2,000,000
2018 11,000,000 1,000,000 - - - - - 12,000,000 1,000,000
2019 8,000,000 - - - - - - 8,000,000 -
2020 UFA

The key numbers are the dead cap space: $11,500,000 this year, $4,000,000 next, $3,000,000 in 2016.

They could cut him in 2016, but as long as he plays well there's zero chance they will. They would still wind up paying him $25,500,000 in guarantees, so they need to just suck it up and hope he continues to play well. I wouldn't bet on his ever getting that $11,000,000 base salary in 2017 though.

Originally Posted by VonDoom

I'm also surprised people are surprised by us wanting to bring back Harris. Maybe the timing is a little odd, but did you really think we'd let him walk without at least attempting to get him to stay? This isn't Decker or Moreno. The Broncos know his value, and obviously want him long term.

I'm not surprised because Harris is no good. I'm surprised because they not only signed Talib, they just used their #1 draft pick to grab Robie. You simply do NOT use a #1 pick on a player unless you project him to be a future starter and hopefully a pro-bowler. Robie has lived generally up to expectations and they are happy with him.

What do they plan on doing? Keep Robie as the #3 CB for the next 4 years?

And if they give Chris Harris his money, what does that mean for Julius and Demaryius Thomas? They can't afford to lose them because they could not be replaced (at least not during Peyton's remaining time).

And, while they obviously aren't keeping Welker, they can't afford to lose Pot Roast either. He's their best interior DL and he's only 28.

The number of FAs they've got next season is amazing. It's half the team!

2015 FAs: D.T., Welker, Jacob Tamme, Rahim Moore, Julius Thomas, Pot-Roast, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving, Quinton Carter, Virgil Green, Steven Johnson, Aaron Brewer, Mitch Unrein, Will Montgomery, Tony Carter, Brandon Marshall, Ben Garland, Paul Cornick, etc.

You have to wonder how many of these guys are back. For instance, the Broncos probably want to keep Virgil Green, but not if his salary goes significantly up from it's current
$524,000 per year. And do they want even more shakeup on the OL by having to replace Orlando Franklin? Yet, he's going to command significantly more than his current $1.1 million a year (remember that Zane friggin' Beadles got

Zane Beadles signed a 5 year / $30 million contract with the Jacksonville Jaguars, including $12,450,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $6,000,000.

True, Jacksonville isn't all that smart. But, there's no way that Franklin is getting less than $4,000,000 a year from somebody. He's flat out going to get offers that everybody on these boards will denounce as "too much." He's only 26 years old and it happens every year.

Same thing is true of Rahim Moore. Same goes for Nate Irving and Quinton Carter. And Will Montgomery? Do they want him back at 32? If not, they need to go out and find a center. They don't have time to draft and develop one either, not before Peyton retires.

And the immense looming shadow of the Von Miller contract still hangs over this off-season.

Originally Posted by Cugel

I'm not surprised because Harris is no good. I'm surprised because they not only signed Talib, they just used their #1 draft pick to grab Robie. You simply do NOT use a #1 pick on a player unless you project him to be a future starter and hopefully a pro-bowler. Robie has lived generally up to expectations and they are happy with him.

Fair point. I hadn't thought of it that way. We still don't know if they can actually re-sign Harris, but if they do, they'll be paying two top CB's at the same time. In that case, Talib is probably the more expendable after another year or two. Nice problem to have, though.

Originally Posted by Joel

Ah, OK, I feel better then; Elway does know what he's doing (except on the line. ) I really can't make sense of what Rotoworld says about his contract: It says $26 million's guaranteed by a $5 million signing bonus plus a $2 million roster bonus this year, but even with the $4.5 million base for this year that only comes to $11½ million—where's the other $14 million and change...

I use OvertheCap as my go-to salary cap website (I believe Cugel's numbers are taken from their site). A lot of five year deals in the NFL now are, as IAOFM likes to say, just a series of one year deals with a team option every year. That's basically how Talib's is structured.

Also, you mentioned Webster in this thread. I know the coaches say he's improved greatly, but we haven't had much of a chance to see that on the field yet. I just don't know if we can count on him to be a big time player and to replace Talib's production at this point. Plus, you can never have too many quality CB's, right?

Originally Posted by VonDoom

Fair point. I hadn't thought of it that way. We still don't know if they can actually re-sign Harris, but if they do, they'll be paying two top CB's at the same time. In that case, Talib is probably the more expendable after another year or two. Nice problem to have, though.

The Broncos will have to evaluate whether Talib is worth his salary over the next 2 seasons. They've already locked into his salary. True they could dump him after 1 year, but the cap hit is prohibitive. Far more likely after 2 seasons unless they conclude he's just not doing his job, and he's generally played pretty well this year. He's not a lockdown CB like Champ in his day or Deion Sanders. But, he's very good.

Its a necessity to have 3 good corners in the NFL.

As far as the preference to resign DRC... I believe he's the one that refused the contract offered, which was the same offered to Talib. Not like we didn't try to resign him.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Its a necessity to have 3 good corners in the NFL.

As far as the preference to resign DRC... I believe he's the one that refused the contract offered, which was the same offered to Talib. Not like we didn't try to resign him.

You're right about needing 3 starting quality CBs in the NFL today. The question is simply "which 3"? The assumption from the drafting of Bradley Roby was that they'd go with him and Talib as the starters and Kayvon Webster as the nickel back in 2015.

That may still happen. But, right now, Chris Harris looks like their best CB - better and more consistent than Talib.

The way he's playing, I would even prefer to keep him over Julius Thomas. Julius seems like he can never learn to block, so they will need to use him essentially as a big WR. He's useless in the run game because he just can't be relied upon to move a guy in front of him. He's an awesome pass-receiver though, so they would like to keep him.

It's just a question of "who do we give $10 million a year to"? Julius Thomas or Chris Harris. I'd vote for Chris Harris right now.

But, these negotiations could wind up going nowhere and they let him become a FA at the end of the year and say "we tried to re-sign him, but he wanted too much money."

I'd say it's 50-50 that still happens.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Its a necessity to have 3 good corners in the NFL. As far as the preference to resign DRC... I believe he's the one that refused the contract offered, which was the same offered to Talib. Not like we didn't try to resign him.

It wasn't the same contract at all

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

It wasn't the same contract at all

It was very, very similar:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/...d-facts/26687/

I have confirmed a Pro Football Talk report that before the Broncos signed Aqib Talib to a six-year, $57 million contract, they offered their own Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie a six-year $54 million deal.

--------------------------------

So Rodgers-Cromartie would have made $16 million after two years. And then it would have been $24 million over three years.

That’s the deal Rodgers-Cromartie turned down. The other $30 million over the final three years was essentially fluff.

Talib and strong safety T.J. Ward didn’t have a problem with the Broncos’ structure. Talib’s six-year, $57 million contract is really one year and $12 million, two years and $18 million and three years and $27 million. His final three years and $30 million are fluff.

This is why you sign guys that you know are going to be good early.

I still think it's going to be hard to keep Chris Harris. Mainly bc Roby seems to be playing very well this year but Harris IS our best DB....been saying that for years. Just doesnt have a big name like Bailey, Sherman or Revis but he's been playing at a high level and rarely gives up anything. Plus he's a tackling machine and is always near the ball.