Thread: Broncos Gameday Thread: Broncos vs Chargers 10/23/14

Mike Carey hacked tomjones^^^^account

Originally Posted by tomjonesrocks

I could kinda see why SD fans would be annoyed with the officiating in that game.

They really had some huge stuff nullified. Caldwell fumbled--that was a pretty crazy miss considering it went under review. And that end zone pick that was nullified was pretty tricky tack foul that didn't impact the play itself.

I still think Caldwell's arm touched down before the ball came loose, but the endzone hold on the pick DEFINITELY affected the play: It's a TD if the defender's not restraining the receiver, but since he WAS it turned into an "overthrow" that was intercepted. It's a classic Defensive Holding call: Not >5 yds past the line, so no Illegal Contact, and initial contact was before the throw (apparently) so no PI.

Originally Posted by tomjonesrocks

In their place I wouldn't be happy either.

At the same time it was annoying as hell for both sides. Denver had several nice plays brought back--I was shouting at them myself. But overall if the game had been officiated by a more "let them play" crew it would have been a much closer game.

In their place, I wouldn't be happy either: I'd be yelling at my team to learn how to cover, same as I yelled at Franklin instead of the refs for the flagrant hold that may have prevented a tackle but DEFINITELY nullified Hillman's nice 40 yd TD run.

Originally Posted by Joel

I still think Caldwell's arm touched down before the ball came loose, but the endzone hold on the pick DEFINITELY affected the play: It's a TD if the defender's not restraining the receiver, but since he WAS it turned into an "overthrow" that was intercepted. It's a classic Defensive Holding call: Not >5 yds past the line, so no Illegal Contact, and initial contact was before the throw (apparently) so no PI.


In their place, I wouldn't be happy either: I'd be yelling at my team to learn how to cover, same as I yelled at Franklin instead of the refs for the flagrant hold that may have prevented a tackle but DEFINITELY nullified Hillman's nice 40 yd TD run.

Since their argument is that Caldwell's elbow wasn't on the ground Charger fans are absolutely right. Unfortunately, Charger fans don't know human anatomy because they don't know that between the hand and the elbow is the forearm.

Forearm/wrist/elbow, it's all the same when talking contact with the ground.

This guy has some pretty shots showing Caldwell down

I suck at posting links or pictures. I saw the pics at milehighreport.com

Originally Posted by Nomad

Forearm/wrist/elbow, it's all the same when talking contact with the ground.

This guy has some pretty shots showing Caldwell down

I suck at posting links or pictures. I saw the pics at milehighreport.com

Some of the Chargers fans are not able to grasp this concept.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Forearm/wrist/elbow, it's all the same when talking contact with the ground.

This guy has some pretty shots showing Caldwell down

I suck at posting links or pictures. I saw the pics at milehighreport.com

Is this what you mean? http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/1...aldwell-fumble

As on any replay, there are two issues: 1) The call itself and 2) whether the evidence (if any) to overturn it is IRREFUTABLE.

It's VERY close, but also CLEAR the end of his forearm touched before the ball came loose, so he's down with possession at that point. I see why the initial call was made, but also think the evidence to overturn it irrefutable; again, it's close but clear, like a foot clipping athe sideline (as on Hillmans long TD ruled out at the 3) rather than a ball lost in a pile (as on Thompsons second TD.)

I kow what Bolts fans are thinking, but this isn't Cutler Fumble II.

Thanks, Joel.

Originally Posted by Joel

Is this what you mean? http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/1...aldwell-fumble

As on any replay, there are two issues: 1) The call itself and 2) whether the evidence (if any) to overturn it is IRREFUTABLE.

It's VERY close, but also CLEAR the end of his forearm touched before the ball came loose, so he's down with possession at that point. I see why the initial call was made, but also think the evidence to overturn it irrefutable; again, it's close but clear, like a foot clipping athe sideline (as on Hillmans long TD ruled out at the 3) rather than a ball lost in a pile (as on Thompsons second TD.)

I kow what Bolts fans are thinking, but this isn't Cutler Fumble II.

There is one thing you're missing. If I have heard correctly a ball moving slightly doesn't constitute loss of control of the ball.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

There is one thing you're missing. If I have heard correctly a ball moving slightly doesn't constitute loss of control of the ball.

That's true, but I thought that only applied to distinguishing catches from incompletes, not whether a fumble occurred. I don't know that though; it's the just the only context in which I've heard that rule cited.

Every time I look at that play it looks perfectly clear to me that his forearm was down before the ball started to move. I don't really get the argument.

Originally Posted by tomjonesrocks

I could kinda see why SD fans would be annoyed with the officiating in that game.

They really had some huge stuff nullified. Caldwell fumbled--that was a pretty crazy miss considering it went under review. And that end zone pick that was nullified was pretty tricky tack foul that didn't impact the play itself.

In their place I wouldn't be happy either.

At the same time it was annoying as hell for both sides. Denver had several nice plays brought back--I was shouting at them myself. But overall if the game had been officiated by a more "let them play" crew it would have been a much closer game.

I would be annoyed as well but there's a bunch of them that think that's why they lost.

Originally Posted by Joel

That's true, but I thought that only applied to distinguishing catches from incompletes, not whether a fumble occurred. I don't know that though; it's the just the only context in which I've heard that rule cited.

I'm just telling you what the head of officiating said.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

I'm just telling you what the head of officiating said.

Fair enough then; I guess it makes sense (we can't expect every ball carrier to hold the ball perfectly motionless at all times) but it does make fumbles a lot less cut and dried.

Originally Posted by I Eat Staples

Every time I look at that play it looks perfectly clear to me that his forearm was down before the ball started to move. I don't really get the argument.

At this moment, Mike Carey is still looking for that minute movement of the ball before the wrist/forearm/elbow was down

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

I would be annoyed as well but there's a bunch of them that think that's why they lost.

Living in SD, I haven't run into any fans in my realm that thought it was game-deciding. Annoyed but not conspiratorial.

I don't doubt they exist, but that's going too far. I had a few reservations going into the game, but it's clear officials or no officials SD got outplayed by a better team.

Denver with a defense is a dangerous thing.