Thread: Defensive Improvement

Kap looks like he's ready to cry there.

Watching Staley stone wall Robert Quinn last week had me worried about this game. Staley is a very talented LT with great feet. What Ware did last night must not be understated.

I'm honestly not so sure Miller is a better pass rusher than Ware. Ware always goes up against the LT, while Miller gets moved all around the line.

Originally Posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor

Watching Staley stone wall Robert Quinn last week had me worried about this game. Staley is a very talented LT with great feet. What Ware did last night must not be understated.

I'm honestly not so sure Miller is a better pass rusher than Ware. Ware always goes up against the LT, while Miller gets moved all around the line.

It's an interesting question; we could turn it around and say Ware doesn't have to pick his way through traffic. He's moved on at least one occasion though: His first game returning from a back injury last year was against us, and Clark stood him up so badly and consistently he switched to Franklin in the second half, with no better results. They've had an interestingly similar past year, both missing much of the early season (for different reasons) and showing it on their return, then dropping weight this offseason before regaining their places as two of the NFLs most dynamic pass rushers.

All I know for sure is that the whole's greater than the sum of the parts, so they each have more sacks than our other 52 players COMBINED. It'll be interesting to see if teams start doubling one or both of them more as the season progresses, and Wolfe/Jackson, Williams and Knightons numbers go up as a result.

Originally Posted by Joel

All I know for sure is that the whole's greater than the sum of the parts, so they each have more sacks than our other 52 players COMBINED.

And Manning has more passing yards than the other 52 players. And Demaryius Thomas and Wes Welker have more receptions than the other 51 guys and Montee Ball and Ronnie Hillman have more rushing yards than the other 51 guys...

Water is also wet.

Top 10 defense playing against some pretty good competition. Might be in the top 5 by the end of the season.

Originally Posted by CrazyHorse

Top 10 defense playing against some pretty good competition. Might be in the top 5 by the end of the season.

Oddly enough, it was ALREADY a top 5 D before the SF game, but (somehow) giving up 17 pts to them while SD gave up 23 to KC dropped us from 4th to 6th in yds/gm and raised SD to 5th.

I still say that's only because we were in Prevent much of the second half, while Oz and the (other) second teamers sputtering through the 4th qtr gave SF more opportunities. In fact (and much like last year) our passing Ds rankings are misleadingly low generally because of stuff like a 24-7 halftime lead on Indy forcing opponents to pass a lot to play catchup. Only Miami has allowed less yds/att through the air—but our opponents make a LOT of passing attempts, so our per-game and total passing yardage are much higher than they should be.

For the record, our 3.3 defensive RUSHING yds/att is 5th overall, so all those pass attempts aren't the reason we're statistically a top five run D: We're just a really good run D (which also encourages passes.)

Originally Posted by Ziggy

JDR deserves some kudos. I've been as critical as anyone on the scheme that was being used. His mindset seems to have changed after the bye. The Broncos are blitzing more, using less 3 man rushes. Von is in coverage less and rushing the passer more. The corners are up in press man more and in a soft zone less. Malik is getting more time on passing downs. All in all, JDR is finally putting these players in a position to succeed based on their strengths and weaknesses. Our defense has been far more aggressive since the bye. The stats are beginning to bear out the fruits of those labors.

Yardage allowed per game: 4th in the NFL (318.2)
Points allowed per game: 6th in the NFL (20.8)
And the most important stat: Tied for 1st in the AFC (4-1)

This has been with Trevathan on the bench for most of the season. Hopefully his injury isn't season ending. I expected some time for the newer players to gel. Ware, Talib, and Ward have played up to expectations IMO. When they all get on the same page, this defense still has a chance to be elite. I'm loving this D.

Some of it might be a few years in the same system, but I think mostly it's better personnel.

Adding Talib, Ward and Roby in the secondary.
Adding Ware and Miller (Miller missed with suspensions, then wasn't the same, then got hurt), along with Q. Smith (IR'd first year), combined with healthy/more experienced Wolf, Williams and Jackson.
Irving, while not spectacular, has gotten better each year and Marshall has stepped up.

There is simply better and healthier talent on the defensive side of the ball, which includes what in the first six games has been the best pass rush duo in the NFL. .

Originally Posted by Tned

Some of it might be a few years in the same system, but I think mostly it's better personnel.

Adding Talib, Ward and Roby in the secondary.
Adding Ware and Miller (Miller missed with suspensions, then wasn't the same, then got hurt), along with Q. Smith (IR'd first year), combined with healthy/more experienced Wolf, Williams and Jackson.
Irving, while not spectacular, has gotten better each year and Marshall has stepped up.

There is simply better and healthier talent on the defensive side of the ball, which includes what in the first six games has been the best pass rush duo in the NFL. .

Ward's a big step up from Ihenacho or even Adams (who's a better FS than SS,) but Roby's not (yet) a huge improvement on Webster (who's not bad) and I'm not convinced Talib for Cromartie isn't a wash (as recently as the AFCCG the Denver faithful swore DRC was MUCH better than Talib.) Miller looks much more like his old self than even on his healthy 2013 snaps, but, while Ware's a definite step up from Phillips (and I want to be VERY clear on that) it's not a HUGE step, IMHO. Irving's only better relative to the low standard he set, and Marshall's stepped up, yet not to Woodyard/Trevathan levels.

That experience you referenced may be as big as familiarity with the system itself though. Miller's been so amazing it's easy to forget this is only his 4th pro season, and Wolfe and Jackson have even less time. Chris Harris is playing phenomenally, but on the tender offer the year after his rookie contract ended. Sly Williams did a great job as a starter when Vickerson got hurt, but an even greater job considering he was a rookie. There's a LOT of young talent on this defense benefitting from their first few pro seasons learning from and practicing with guys like Champ under coaches like Del Rio.

It's unnerving to wonder what our offense will look like post-Manning, since our only heir apparent right now threw only his 21st pro pass Sunday, but even if he (or whoever) picks up right where Manning leaves off, it's hard to dispute the post-Manning Broncos will be a return to the Orange Crush. Then again, there's no reason that can't resume while Manning's still here.

Roby is the man

Gotta agree. We see the plays Roby gives up because he gets picked on as a rookie, but his play is by FAR better than what Webster gave us last year. I'll admit, I was one of the people that wasnt thrilled with that draft pick...but he has quickly changed my mind and I can see him turning into one of the more dominant and physical CB's in this league. I've been very impressed with him thus far.

I disagree with your Phillips/Ware comparison, Joel. Ware is by far a better player.

Agreed. Roby's been a pleasant surprise.

Since I mentioned DVOA earlier in the thread, I thought people might be interested in the newest ratings. We're not only #1 in DVOA, we're #1 by a huge margin. Football Outsiders themselves even say this:

As a result, the Broncos are now living in "best team in DVOA history" territory. The Broncos are now the sixth-best team in DVOA ever measured through Week 7, and the second-best team this century, trailing only the 2007 Patriots. It's interesting to note that there are only four teams from the current century in the top dozen for DVOA through Week 7, and three of those teams had Peyton Manning at quarterback: the 2007 Colts, this year's Broncos, and last year's Broncos, who also had a DVOA rating over 40% after Week 7.

We're #1 overall by about 20% over the next team (the Ravens), #1 in offense, #2 in defense (to Detroit, but we're not as far back as we've been), and #20 in special teams.

Also of note in this piece from FO is a mention of strength of schedule based on DVOA.

The Seahawks are just one of a number of teams who are about to see their schedules get much harder or easier. Some of the others, with their ranks for both past and future schedule:

SCHEDULE GETTING EASIER: New York Jets (from 2 to 18), Indianapolis (from 5 to 28), Minnesota (from 11 to 29), Carolina (from 12 to 30).
SCHEDULE GETTING HARDER: Pittsburgh (from 32 to 8), Philadelphia (from 29 to 9), New England (from 28 to 3), St. Louis (from 25 to 4), San Diego (from 24 to 2).

This says that the Patriots and Chargers have benefited from an easier early schedule and they're about to get much harder. Denver's schedule goes from 6th hardest to an estimated 15th for the rest of the year, btw.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Gotta agree. We see the plays Roby gives up because he gets picked on as a rookie, but his play is by FAR better than what Webster gave us last year. I'll admit, I was one of the people that wasnt thrilled with that draft pick...but he has quickly changed my mind and I can see him turning into one of the more dominant and physical CB's in this league. I've been very impressed with him thus far.

Roby is a lot further ahead of where people thought he would be at this point myself included. I couldn't be more thrilled.

Originally Posted by Slick

I disagree with your Phillips/Ware comparison, Joel. Ware is by far a better player.

Fair enough; it's mainly a question of HOW MUCH better: For $10 million instead of the $3 million Phillips is getting this year, let's hope the answer's "a LOT."