Thread: Adrian Peterson's arrest ordered

Originally Posted by Joel

It's not "the marks can't be too bad or people will know," it's "a lasting mark and/or drawing blood is an injury, and thus going too far." If I lean my head on my hand for 10 minutes, there'll be a red mark from the heat and pressure, but it fades as quickly as it came; if it lasts a day or two, that's an injury.

Your evaluation of "East Texans" is still way off base. I quoted this one because your previous post a lot longer. You act like they're all the same and like they're all a bunch of bible thumping southern folk that are all cut from the same cloth. Houston has more in common with Los Angeles than it has in common with small town Texas.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Exactly! What Peterson did or corporal punishment defines, you couldn't do that to an adult without getting arrested for DV or assault. So why can a parent do this to the child, especially drawing blood? In my experience as a parent, I don't see the need for a belt or switching. Some said my form of discipline was extreme, which I made my boys PT, sit in a corner and think of what they did, then I explained what they did wrong. Perhaps a pat on the ass to get their attention.

That's about the extent of my punishment. My son stands in the corner with his nose in it, his hands by his sides, still and quiet. Once in a while I'll give him a flick/thump or a pat on the backside but I try not to be too aggressive as patience testing as it is.

Originally Posted by Joel

That's nothing like what Peterson did; Peterson definitely went too far, and should have waited till he cooled down enough he WOULDN'T, but calling it a beating is sensationalized exaggeration.

Call it a beating, call it a whipping, whatever, that's just semantics. It was a horrible thing to do regardless.

It orginates in Proverbs 3:11,12 and 13:24, and Paul quotes and elaborates on the former in Hebrews 12; that, and the reverence most East Texas jurors pay the bible, is why I previously quoted those sections. Good luck convincing a dozen East Texans to unanimously agree Adrian Peterson should go to prison for doing what the bible says. Again, it took TWO grand juries just to INDICT him.

I weep for our country if important decisions are being made by people who think God is a fan of whipping children with sticks.

Originally Posted by Joel

Not firsthand, but my great-great-grandfather was reportedly an awful human being, and the story goes that when my great-grandfather got religion, got married and moved away, his father tracked him down, dragged him home, horsewhipped him and left him tied to a post rather than give up a free fieldhand. His mother had to wait till dark, then soak him in a tub of hot water to remove the shredded clothes that his blood had dried into his wounds.

That's nothing like what Peterson did; Peterson definitely went too far, and should have waited till he cooled down enough he WOULDN'T, but calling it a beating is sensationalized exaggeration.


No, it's not: The biblically inspired verbatim phrase is from an English poem that predates de Sade by a century: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spare_...poil_the_child

It orginates in Proverbs 3:11,12 and 13:24, and Paul quotes and elaborates on the former in Hebrews 12; that, and the reverence most East Texas jurors pay the bible, is why I previously quoted those sections. Good luck convincing a dozen East Texans to unanimously agree Adrian Peterson should go to prison for doing what the bible says. Again, it took TWO grand juries just to INDICT him.

Oh, c'mon. you had to know that was a joke.

Originally Posted by Nomad

Explain to me ol' wise one where I'm missing the point?

I think you think Joel is condoning Peterson's actions but the more I read his posts I get confused on where he stands.

I definitely don't condone what Peterson did. I come from a family of divorce. My Mom's choice of disclipline was to ground me or send me to my room. My Dad's method of choice was a wooden paddle. Needless to say, my Mom's methods weren't very effective but my Dad's were.

If I ever have kids I'm not sure how I will handle discipline. Probably more like most of you. A time out corner or in extreme cases a bare handed swat on the butt, and only when they're old enough to understand it.

Originally Posted by SeeingRed

Your evaluation of "East Texans" is still way off base. I quoted this one because your previous post a lot longer. You act like they're all the same and like they're all a bunch of bible thumping southern folk that are all cut from the same cloth. Houston has more in common with Los Angeles than it has in common with small town Texas.

Well, I'm (at least) sixth generation, but tell me all you learned after moving there. Regardless, Peterson was indicted (on the second try) in MONTGOMERY County, not Harris, which is why all the court proceedings were in Conroe, not Houston; I advise against telling those folks they have more in common with L.A. than with small town TX (which is basically what they are.) They may not be bible thumpers, per se, but are pretty devout and deeply bible-believing as a whole; after all, the national Sothern Baptist Convention that purged the church of "liberals" was at the Astrodome in 1979.

Originally Posted by aberdien

Call it a beating, call it a whipping, whatever, that's just semantics. It was a horrible thing to do regardless.

I weep for our country if important decisions are being made by people who think God is a fan of whipping children with sticks.

Take it up with Solomon and St. Paul: They said it; I just quoted. A switch still isn't a "branch" nor even "stick," and it's disingenuous to pretend pretty much everyone doesn't know that. Branches and sticks don't wrap around legs, and even my father-in-law (a native of another CONTINENT) got enough switchings as a kid to know the difference, so let's not play dumb here, folks.

None of that alters the reality Peterson lost control and went too far; drawing blood and/or raising lasting welts is injury, not discipline, and inexcusable. If we're debating spanking ITSELF though, well, the government here in Norway sends people to prison and takes their kids for spankings, but that ain't TX.

Let's be clear to what AP did to his child and call it for what it was in reality. In this instance he did not spank his child. He did not, in the normal sense of the word, switch his child. This is important to understand because he did use a switch, but switching a child is a form of punishment where you hit them with a switch. So a switch is both a tangible object and a sub-type of punishment. What he did was use the switch, a tangible object, to beat his child. I refuse to have this discussion marred by a tenuous usage of language.

Furthermore, Joel, you're embarrassing yourself by bringing up the fact that it took two grand juries. It is very irrelevant, especially since the evidence in question pretty much shows that the first grand jury was in error. You can say it all you want. You can dress up that argument in any fashion and use your masterful command of the English language as a means of conveying with a sparkling display of ability and style. It. Just. Isn't. Persuasive.

Also, the metropolitan areas in Texas are notoriously liberal. I think that this is a credit to Texas in the sense that it offers political situations that are at least relatively desirable to its citizens.

Originally Posted by Runamok

Oh, c'mon. you had to know that was a joke.

Irrelevant. You've provided Joel the rare chance to be right.

Originally Posted by King87

Let's be clear to what AP did to his child and call it for what it was in reality. In this instance he did not spank his child. He did not, in the normal sense of the word, switch his child. This is important to understand because he did use a switch, but switching a child is a form of punishment where you hit them with a switch. So a switch is both a tangible object and a sub-type of punishment. What he did was use the switch, a tangible object, to beat his child. I refuse to have this discussion marred by a tenuous usage of language.

Then, in the spirit of precise language, Peterson used a switch to whip, NOT beat, his child. Not that either is acceptable nor can be justified; he went too far, else there would've been no wounds. Calling it felony is a bridge too far though, because the injuries were neither severe nor intentional: They were the result of negligently excessive force, still inexcusable (especially when a young child's involved) but not malicious; misdemeanor reckless assault's probably the right charge, even if we arrived there by sheer dumb luck. At least the ADAs conviction percentage went up, right?

Originally Posted by King87

Furthermore, Joel, you're embarrassing yourself by bringing up the fact that it took two grand juries. It is very irrelevant, especially since the evidence in question pretty much shows that the first grand jury was in error. You can say it all you want. You can dress up that argument in any fashion and use your masterful command of the English language as a means of conveying with a sparkling display of ability and style. It. Just. Isn't. Persuasive.

Both juries rendered opinions, so CAN'T be in error unless they perjured themselves. The FACT the first grand jurys OPINION wasn't that the criminal charges were invalid matters a lot, or rather, the additional fact the DA blew that off and just swore in yet ANOTHER grand jury to indict matters. Think about that for a minute: Since it was "only" an indictment rather than a conviction, that may not be double jeopardy, but it's the same principle: We're just gonna keep swearing in jury after jury until we find SOMEONE to indict you. Because "justice."

Originally Posted by King87

Also, the metropolitan areas in Texas are notoriously liberal. I think that this is a credit to Texas in the sense that it offers political situations that are at least relatively desirable to its citizens.

The metropolitan areas of TX are not "notoriously liberal." Maybe compared to the rest of ultra-conservative TX, but Houston and Dallas alone account for about half the roughly 26 million residents who voted for George W. Bush in every election from 1994 to 2004 (by double digit margins in all but the first,) twice re-elected Rick Perry as his gubernatorial successor and elected Tea Party darling Ted Cruz to the US Senate by a 15% margin. The only "notoriously liberal metropolitian area" in TX is Austin, which IS pretty notorious with the rest of the state, but ~200 miles from Conroe.

Conroe, once again, is where Petersons court proceedings took place, because he lives just over the border in Montgomery County, NOT Harris, so what Houston or its suburban jurors think has no more bearing on his case than what you or I think.

Joel, I read the first sentence of your post and I just stopped. I literally sighed and rolled my eyes. I'm done with you, your posts in this thread make you look like you're either out of touch with reality or a sociopath.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beat

a. To strike repeatedly.
b. To subject to repeated beatings or physical abuse; batter.
c. To punish by hitting or whipping; flog.

This is what happens when you argue semantics, Joel.

P.S. don't respond with a long post discussing why Whip is still different than Beat, because I frankly DGAF because they are for all intents and purposes the same goddamn thing. AP beat his child with a whip-like object. AP whipped his child. That is not okay no matter what verbage you use.

Originally Posted by Joel

the injuries were neither severe nor intentional

The injuries were severe, both physically AND mentally. To suggest otherwise is idiotic. You don't get a pass because you didn't mean to beat your kid a bunch of times with a whip-like object (in the balls no less!).

Hey Joel, would you describe what Abe just did to you as a beating or a whipping?

Let AP play.

Originally Posted by Joel

Not firsthand, but my great-great-grandfather was reportedly an awful human being, and the story goes that when my great-grandfather got religion, got married and moved away, his father tracked him down, dragged him home, horsewhipped him and left him tied to a post rather than give up a free fieldhand. His mother had to wait till dark, then soak him in a tub of hot water to remove the shredded clothes that his blood had dried into his wounds.

That's nothing like what Peterson did; Peterson definitely went too far, and should have waited till he cooled down enough he WOULDN'T, but calling it a beating is sensationalized exaggeration.


No, it's not: The biblically inspired verbatim phrase is from an English poem that predates de Sade by a century: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/spare_...poil_the_child

It orginates in Proverbs 3:11,12 and 13:24, and Paul quotes and elaborates on the former in Hebrews 12; that, and the reverence most East Texas jurors pay the bible, is why I previously quoted those sections. Good luck convincing a dozen East Texans to unanimously agree Adrian Peterson should go to prison for doing what the bible says. Again, it took TWO grand juries just to INDICT him.

You don't call the marks left on that child a beating? What do you call it?

Originally Posted by GEM

You don't call the marks left on that child a beating? What do you call it?

Educational love of a corrective nature....or some other piece of minimising language.

It is what it is.