Thread: 2014 other games thread

I still laugh. I remember when the Vince Young, Cam Newton, EJ Manuel ,Vick, Geno Smith, etc., type of player were going to come to the NFL and change the direction of the QB position. Im still waiting. Give me a good old fashion (dare I say white) pocket QB who can throw from the pocket and scramble if needed.

Originally Posted by chazoe60

Newton sucks.

I think you put Cam in with a better supporting cast, he would be a top ten qb.

He has played with offensive scrubs his whole career (less Smith)

Originally Posted by daveaitken18

I think you put Cam in with a better supporting cast, he would be a top ten qb.

He has played with offensive scrubs his whole career (less Smith)

I think that could be said for many quarterbacks. That's why I try not to lean too far one way or the other on players. Some guys have better players around them. Some have the right coaching. Some have the right fit, while others don't. I think there are several busts that could have been successful, and I think there are several successful players that could have been busts.

Originally Posted by dbfan2007

I think that could be said for many quarterbacks. That's why I try not to lean too far one way or the other on players. Some guys have better players around them. Some have the right coaching. Some have the right fit, while others don't. I think there are several busts that could have been successful, and I think there are several successful players that could have been busts.

Yeah - i think that is fair. there are of course players like PFM who would be successful even with the Jags, and then there are those like Tom Brady who was just really lucky......

Originally Posted by Bronco9798

I still laugh. I remember when the Vince Young, Cam Newton, EJ Manuel ,Vick, Geno Smith, etc., type of player were going to come to the NFL and change the direction of the QB position. Im still waiting. Give me a good old fashion (dare I say white) pocket QB who can throw from the pocket and scramble if needed.

Yea, this was supposed to happen a few years ago. We are still waiting. Guys like Tebow and company were supposed to change the game but yet we are still waiting.

Originally Posted by Northman

Yea, this was supposed to happen a few years ago. We are still waiting. Guys like Tebow and company were supposed to change the game but yet we are still waiting.

I think they did change the game - but then DC's just changed their game and completely canceled out the dual threat qb.

It is now only effective when used occasionally as part of an overall game plan - similar to a play action (if you just faked every time, no one would buy the run in the first place) - and these qbs are well placed to execute those plays when they are called - but that is a long way away from the dual qb being the be all and end all that they were supposed to be.

Originally Posted by daveaitken18

I think they did change the game - but then DC's just changed their game and completely canceled out the dual threat qb.

It is now only effective when used occasionally as part of an overall game plan - similar to a play action (if you just faked every time, no one would buy the run in the first place) - and these qbs are well placed to execute those plays when they are called - but that is a long way away from the dual qb being the be all and end all that they were supposed to be.

Im not sure if i agree they changed the game. In the end its still the pocket QB with better accuracy that is the one that leads to Championships. Yes, we lost to Wilson and Hawks but that really had more to do with his own surrounding talent than Wilson himself. But, the problem with the hybrids is their durability. They think they can come up from college ball and play like they did there. Just not going to happen when your playing the best of the best at the pro level. I dont think i would consider a big run here or there from a hybrid QB as changing the game. Their longevity, durability, and accuracy will always be their downfall. The one thing that separates a guy like Russell Wilson as opposed to Robert Griffin is that one thinks to pass first while the other wants to run. Until guys like Griffin realize that they need to be able to read defenses and work through their progressions and only run out of necessity they will always fail and always be hurt. You just cant have a successful and long career playing like that.

Originally Posted by Northman

Im not sure if i agree they changed the game. In the end its still the pocket QB with better accuracy that is the one that leads to Championships. Yes, we lost to Wilson and Hawks but that really had more to do with his own surrounding talent than Wilson himself. But, the problem with the hybrids is their durability. They think they can come up from college ball and play like they did there. Just not going to happen when your playing the best of the best at the pro level. I dont think i would consider a big run here or there from a hybrid QB as changing the game. Their longevity, durability, and accuracy will always be their downfall. The one thing that separates a guy like Russell Wilson as opposed to Robert Griffin is that one thinks to pass first while the other wants to run. Until guys like Griffin realize that they need to be able to read defenses and work through their progressions and only run out of necessity they will always fail and always be hurt. You just cant have a successful and long career playing like that.

We sort of agree then.

I just think they would have been more successful had DCs not learned to shut them down

Originally Posted by daveaitken18

I think they did change the game - but then DC's just changed their game and completely canceled out the dual threat qb.

It is now only effective when used occasionally as part of an overall game plan - similar to a play action (if you just faked every time, no one would buy the run in the first place) - and these qbs are well placed to execute those plays when they are called - but that is a long way away from the dual qb being the be all and end all that they were supposed to be.

So why haven't DC's stopped the pocket QB? Oh I could elaborate and be called a racist, so I'll refrain. But no, the type of QB I was referring has not changed the game. They have only made GM's look foolish.

Originally Posted by daveaitken18

We sort of agree then.

I just think they would have been more successful had DCs not learned to shut them down

Honestly i dont think DC's really had to do much of anything. You just treat a hybrid QB like a RB have a spotter for them which they have been doing anyway for guys like Steve Young or John Elway. Ive seen guys like Tebow, Newton, V. Young, etc have all the time in the world but their accuracy is so substandard that it really makes the DC's job quite easy. I think it has less to do with the DC's and more to do with the hybrid's mechanics and mental fortitude.

Just to be contrarian, you could say QBs like Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler are proof that white standard throwing QBs are failures while Steve Young, Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick are examples of running QBs who made it to the Super Bowl. I actually agree with the overall points but your examples could be countered.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Just to be contrarian, you could say QBs like Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler are proof that white standard throwing QBs are failures while Steve Young, Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick are examples of running QBs who made it to the Super Bowl. I actually agree with the overall points but your examples could be countered.

Well, not really. When one says that the Pocket QB is more sustainable and more successful it does not mean that every pocket passer that comes into the league will be successful overall. Likewise, Wilson who is basically a hybrid has had success whereas a lot of if not most of his brethren have not had that same success. Unfortunately for guys like Wilson and Kap we have seen that defense has played a major role in their success and not so much with them putting up lofty numbers or being the crutch to their team's ultimate success. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson made SB's as well and even won but neither were what i or most people would deem a great QB. They were adequate for what the team needed (Wilson/Kaep) but had the luxury of having very very good defenses when they made their respective SB's.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Just to be contrarian, you could say QBs like Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler are proof that white standard throwing QBs are failures while Steve Young, Russell Wilson and Colin Kaepernick are examples of running QBs who made it to the Super Bowl. I actually agree with the overall points but your examples could be countered.

I read Norths post and I agree with him. That's where I was going to go. Not every pocket QB is going to successful to the point of a championship. The majority, and a high majority, of successful QB's though are pocket QB's who can scramble out of harms way when needed. And, yes they are mainly white QB's as well. The read one progression QB and take off running, or option type QB's, have mainly been failures, ot not all that successful.

I'll take the classic pocket passer, mobile or not, yall can have these idiot one-read-and-runners. That's how it boils down to me, mobility is a bonus.

would you be happy with a black homosexual pocket passer?