Thread: Pocket Passer vs Scrambler in present NFL Era

Since Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl (in my opinion, he didn't really win it, their Defense did), the debate I've heard is are coaches and teams looking more for a scrambling QB these days because of their ability to extend plays or create opportunities.

Current list of Scrambling QB's consist of:

Russell Wilson (won SB but short & makes safe decisions and seems clutch so far)
Cam Newton (prototype Scrambler because of arm strength, size, and speed)
Colin Kaepernick (size & speed)
Robert Griffin III (accuracy, decision making (1st yr), and speed)
Andrew Luck (not known as a scrambler but the kid can move when he needs to. BUT, has all the pocket QB tangibles ANY coach would want)

Past Scrambler QBs:

Michael Vick (his playoff appearance sparked exact same argument back in his prime, no SB win)
Donavon McNabb (not like Vick, but good enough to be same category, no SB win)
Vince Young (...smh)
Randall Cunningham (no SB)
Steve Young (won one SB, but forced to retire due to concussions)
Fran Tarkenton (great scrambling QB, no SB win)
Kordell Stewart (no SB win)
Steve McNair (no SB wins)
Roger Stabauch (two SB wins)
Jim Zorn (not exactly a scrambler type, but did have to fun a lot due to poor blocking. No SBs)
John Elway (he ran well and is tough as nails. Two SBs)

So, of this list of 15 QBs who fit a mild scrambler QB identity, 6 Super Bowls were won between 4 of them.

I'd also like to point out that injuries plagued 7 of the 16 (not just counting season or career ending. 1 in the new 5, and 6 in the old 11. Kordell, Randall, Vince, and Donavon were hampered by lingering leg injuries at times that I think led to their demise).

So, all this talk about "New Era" and "Scrambling QB's is what should be preferred", I'm not buying it. I do believe more scrambling QBs are getting better at accuracy and consistency, but the fact that when they do scramble, they are putting themselves in more of harms way if they do not slide.

I think a scrambling QB benefits the team the most when the team has a weak O-line or can allow a team to get away with having a weak O-line.

Thoughts?

My only problem with your list is that a good number of those guys were actually pass first QB's. I think the difference between a scrambler and a hybrid is that the hybrids generally think run first or do just as much running as they do passing (Tebow, V. Young, M. Vick, Slash, Kap) whereas QB's who run only when necessary but always look for the pass option first (Elway, S. Young, McNair, McNabb, Staubach, etc). At this point based on what ive seen of Wilson he is still a pass first QB. But he is probably the closest to a hybrid QB that we will see but he definitely was helped by a very very good defense. But coming out of college Russell was actually the most accurate in terms of pass percentage vs any other QB coming out that year including Griffin for the Redskins.

There were Tebow fans a few years ago saying how the hybrid QB was of the future but so far it hasnt really been the case. But as i said Russell would be the closest thing to a hybrid at this stage so whether or not going forward we shall see if he continues to think pass first or vice versa. The problem with hybrids is they really cant afford to run as much as pass (i think Kaep will learn very quickly that running as much as he does will get him smashed on the field, especially as he gets older) because of the chance of injury. I really dont see pocket passers being replaced by hybrids in the long run.

Kaepernick also can wing it like a son of a gun when he wants and is pretty good at avoiding unneccessary contact.

Just as well, McNabb figured it out better than any of these scrambling QBs. After his fourth or fifth season his rushing attempts dropped by almost 50% and his passing attempts gradually rose.

Originally Posted by Northman

My only problem with your list is that a good number of those guys were actually pass first QB's. I think the difference between a scrambler and a hybrid is that the hybrids generally think run first or do just as much running as they do passing (Tebow, V. Young, M. Vick, Slash, Kap) whereas QB's who run only when necessary but always look for the pass option first (Elway, S. Young, McNair, McNabb, Staubach, etc). At this point based on what ive seen of Wilson he is still a pass first QB. But he is probably the closest to a hybrid QB that we will see but he definitely was helped by a very very good defense. But coming out of college Russell was actually the most accurate in terms of pass percentage vs any other QB coming out that year including Griffin for the Redskins.

There were Tebow fans a few years ago saying how the hybrid QB was of the future but so far it hasnt really been the case. But as i said Russell would be the closest thing to a hybrid at this stage so whether or not going forward we shall see if he continues to think pass first or vice versa. The problem with hybrids is they really cant afford to run as much as pass (i think Kaep will learn very quickly that running as much as he does will get him smashed on the field, especially as he gets older) because of the chance of injury. I really dont see pocket passers being replaced by hybrids in the long run.

Oh, I agree with you about the "pass first" guys. I had to reach a little because the list was much smaller without them.

Originally Posted by artie_dale

Since Russell Wilson won the Super Bowl (in my opinion, he didn't really win it, their Defense did), the debate I've heard is are coaches and teams looking more for a scrambling QB these days because of their ability to extend plays or create opportunities.

Current list of Scrambling QB's consist of:

Russell Wilson (won SB but short & makes safe decisions and seems clutch so far)
Cam Newton (prototype Scrambler because of arm strength, size, and speed)
Colin Kaepernick (size & speed)
Robert Griffin III (accuracy, decision making (1st yr), and speed)
Andrew Luck (not known as a scrambler but the kid can move when he needs to. BUT, has all the pocket QB tangibles ANY coach would want)

Past Scrambler QBs:

Michael Vick (his playoff appearance sparked exact same argument back in his prime, no SB win)
Donavon McNabb (not like Vick, but good enough to be same category, no SB win)
Vince Young (...smh)
Randall Cunningham (no SB)
Steve Young (won one SB, but forced to retire due to concussions)
Fran Tarkenton (great scrambling QB, no SB win)
Kordell Stewart (no SB win)
Steve McNair (no SB wins)
Roger Stabauch (two SB wins)
Jim Zorn (not exactly a scrambler type, but did have to fun a lot due to poor blocking. No SBs)
John Elway (he ran well and is tough as nails. Two SBs)

So, of this list of 15 QBs who fit a mild scrambler QB identity, 6 Super Bowls were won between 4 of them.

I'd also like to point out that injuries plagued 7 of the 16 (not just counting season or career ending. 1 in the new 5, and 6 in the old 11. Kordell, Randall, Vince, and Donavon were hampered by lingering leg injuries at times that I think led to their demise).

So, all this talk about "New Era" and "Scrambling QB's is what should be preferred", I'm not buying it. I do believe more scrambling QBs are getting better at accuracy and consistency, but the fact that when they do scramble, they are putting themselves in more of harms way if they do not slide.

I think a scrambling QB benefits the team the most when the team has a weak O-line or can allow a team to get away with having a weak O-line.

Thoughts?

IMO you are correct about Wilson, not so much as he won the game as the defense did, his breaking contain helped him and Harvin to move the ball when they did. But having a very short field for much of the game helped (their defense and St did that for him) made scoring drives very manageable.
Had we been able to contain those two the game would have turned out a lot closer with a BRONCO WIN.

Give me Cam or luck anyday over him Kapernick over any of the others.

While I did not see a lot of Foles what I did, I think you could add him to that list also.

Just having a statue back there is nuts in today's NFL, if it was not for Manning super quick release he would have been out of the league a decade ago.

A pure pocket passer is going the way of the dodo bird. That is if his name is not manning.

IIRC OZ has wheels not in the Kapernick league but good enough to keep the heat off.

The pure passer will never go away, there's always gonna be coaches that actually want their QB to follow script and game plan, not just drop back, make one read and take off running.