This. He might be a fan favorite or whatever but he's not nearly the player some people make him out to be. He's solid, but far from irreplaceable. Malik Jackson is more noticeable on the field that Wolfe was.Originally Posted by CoachChaz
BF OG
This. He might be a fan favorite or whatever but he's not nearly the player some people make him out to be. He's solid, but far from irreplaceable. Malik Jackson is more noticeable on the field that Wolfe was.
"Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer" -Arnold
BF OG
It's not a bold statement at all.
"Milk is for babies. When you grow up, you have to drink beer" -Arnold
scrub-ass scrub
Woolf is a big loss, wish him all the best. Shame. Malik, make us forget all about him.
Aggie 4 Life
IMO...he already has
A better man.
Jackson's my first choice to replace Wolfe, too (though I don't think he brings quite as much as a pass rusher) but haven't the coaches put Ayers in and reserved Jackson for backing up Phillips on the other side? I realize he CAN play either side (and believe Ayers was rotating with Phillips early) but didn't think we had him DOING it much. My recollection is that Jackson's usually been coming off the left side of our D rather than the right, but I only watch the games once, so would welcome elaboration from anyone whose using their DVR or has the NFL game film subscription.
Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. —Jaded
Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
Love can't be coerced. —Me
Self-Advocating Aspie
It was this season's preseason that he got that injury that some of us feared might have ended his career. Initial reports was that he's probably going to at least miss all of this season. I was amazed when he started opening week, but have since wondered if he'd rushed his return.
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I think Ayers will play a lot if NE tries to run down throats. If Brady tries to pick apart secondary more Jackson.
A better man.
That makes sense, and suggests they'll rotate depending on down/distance. The depth chart at the team site and ESPNs shows Jackson as the starter opposite Phillips, with Mincey behind him and Ayers behind Phillips. Ayers is a better run stuffer than pass rusher though, and what I've seen online about Mincey suggest he's just the opposite, more of a poor mans Mathis or Doom, so I'd think they'd put Jackson/Mincey on the QBs blindside and have Phillips/Ayers on the side that must beat TE blocks to reach runners, but those aren't necessarily opposite sides.
Whatever works. I just wish we weren't forced to choose between the guy who plays the run well but not the pass vs. the guy who plays the pass well but not the run, then hope we have time to substitute them when appropriate (it's not like Brady ever runs Hurry Up offense, right?) Hopes and prayers Wolfe makes a full recovery, for our sake as well as his.
Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. —Jaded
Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
Love can't be coerced. —Me
Cult Figure
I like Wolfe, but we dont need him. We have guys who are filling in just fine, if not better.
Its not like he is JJ Watt or something
Senior Member
Wolfe's inconsistent play is a direct result of the scheme, IMO, and I don't think people should be shocked that he's better when Miller is in the lineup.
The Broncos drafted him to play inside in a 3-3, 4-3 over/under look, playing 3-tech and 4-tech. When Miller isn't in the lineup they can't play the 3-3 over/under, 4-3 over/under look, because they don't have the explosive player coming off the edge to do it.
I went back and looked at the defensive line formations in the first quarter of two games, against Philadelphia (I chose this game because Wolfe had a decent game on the stat sheet) and Indianapolis (Miller's first game back).
Wolfe played in 18 of 27 first quarter snaps against Philadelphia. Every single one was as a traditional defensive end, lined up outside the tackle, except one play he lined up as a ROLB (but I think Denver got caught substituting in Philly's hurry up). Nine of those snaps were on the right, nine on the left. I don't believe he's ever lined up in that position (college or pro) consistently. He overran nearly ever run play, because his instinct are to push up field like a 3-tech inside.
He played 13 of 22 first quarter snaps against Indianapolis, Five at RDE, 6 at LDE and 2 at LDT, but he wasn't off tackle, he was playing 3-tech, 4-tech and a couple snaps at 5-tech. His best three games were the three games following that Indy game. I don't think that's a coincidence.
*The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.
Senior Member
Good post Mo-
I personally never doubted he was a good player.
Notorious D.O.G.
look at MOseph running shit like a short boss. . .
even if you don't agree, let's put it this way. . . even if malik jackson replaces wolfe effectively, we don't have another player with that skillset to replace malik's role in the rotation. . . we're lucky that we were able to bolster our depth with mincey, who's given us some quality snaps, but he's not a guy that fills the same roles. . . if anything, mincey helps us replace a bit of what von did on third downs. . .
it's also a concern going forward, because both ayers and philips are free agents. . . and i don't want to hear about quanterus smith until he gets on the field and does something, sorry. . . the position is in serious flux going forward if wolfe doesn't return at full health next year. . .
Last edited by dogfish; 01-18-2014 at 08:31 AM.
A better man.
That's my concern; rotation's as vital at DE as at DT. Jackson plays the pass better than Ayers, IMHO, and the run better than Mincey reportedly does, but we have the same problem at DE and DT: Even if Sylvester Williams/Malik Jackson team with Terrance Knighton/Shaun Phillips as well as Kevin Vickerson/Derek Wolfe did, who comes in when the starting duo's tired? Unrein's never wowwed me at DT, and Hurry Up may allow us the chance to sub Ayers vs. the run or Mincey vs. the pass. Meanwhile, whoever isn't getting a breather justs wears down more.
Yeah, I'm hopeful about Smith, but just because he's a Bronco doesn't mean he can play, and we don't know what he'll be like after injury. In FA I'm less concerned about Phillips than Ayers; as a far more versatile player, it's hard to imagine we won't re-sign Phillips after he led the team in sacks playing for just an even $1 million. At 33, I doubt we offer a long deal, but also doubt anyone else does either. Right now, Phillips is probably the best DE on a team with few good ones: Why wouldn't we re-sign him?
Ayers is another matter; he's good against the run but never more than average rushing the passer, and lost his starting job in preseason two years ago because Del Rio thought he was loafing (and publicly said so.) That doesn't sound like a guy we're desperate to keep. He lost the starting job to Wolfe, and didn't get it back even after Doom bolted: We signed Phillips to start instead. We may offer Ayers a new contract, but I doubt it's huge, and if he gets a better offer (in terms of money or playing time) he'll probably take it.
So I agree we NEED Wolfe back whether or not we GET him. Even if Jackson is consistently strong vs. both run and pass, Mincey's a rental, Ayers likely gone and I have little faith in the versatility of either of those two. I just hope and pray Wolfe suffers no long term harm, and the rest of the team gets a Ring for all of them before we must assemble next years roster.
Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. —Jaded
Never confuse frustrated candor and disloyal malice.
Love can't be coerced. —Me
Insert clever phrase here
It's simple - would rather have him than not.. Houston oakland and a banged up Oline Chargers team are not the Patriots stout offense. Besides the coaches wouldn't be beaching him for any of they guys (mentioned above as better than him) if he were available.. Good grief.
Senior Member
I think you two may have misinterpreted what I said a little. I like Wolfe, but he has underperformed this year, and if he's a one-formation pony (for lack of a better term), and without Miller the Broncos aren't going to use that scheme, then he isn't exactly the solution at the position. If Jackson is better all-around, or Ayers for that matter, he should be the guy on the field getting more snaps.
The only thing that stops me from thinking that's 100 percent the case is that whenever Wolfe was healthy, Del Rio had him on the field, and not the other two.
*The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.
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