Thread: Colts agree with WR Deion Branch

Originally Posted by WTE

Joel, I just read your 1st 2 sentences. Stopped after that.

But in those 1st 2 sentences you tried to explain why Moreno ran for more than 200 yds against NE and your reasoning is wrong.

NE played nickel most of the game to take the ball out of Payton's hands and almost force him to audible the run. That's what he did. Plus, NE had just lost Wilfork and Kelly and didn't have any run stoppers in the middle. They have one now with Sealver Siliga, a former Bronco.

Denver wasn't able to properly coach him up. Belichick has been very capable in that regard.

Let me summarize what Joel said.

1) We have a much better run defense, you have a marginally better pass defense. Because teams average more yards per play passing then running, your going to come away with giving up few yards.

2) Yes, yards & points are easier to come by against garbage defenses than against a team's real defense. Any football fan with a shred of objectivity knows & will acknowledge this fact, only a troll talking trash about a rival team would deny it.

So your excuse for why Moreno ran for more than 200 yards against the Pats was that you spent the entire game playing nickel in order to take the ball out of Manning's hands.

1) Isn't that the same strategy that everyone has used against Manning over the past dozen + seasons? If everyone has used that same strategy against us for the past 2 seasons, but Moreno was only able to put 200+ yards against you, what does that say about your run defense.

2) What Moreno did was a total adoration. Yes, it was your worst performance of the season, but just compare what you did in your other games to what we did all year long.

Patriots: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gamelogs::none

Broncos: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gamelogs::none

Originally Posted by PatriotsGuy

WTE posted

"Joel, I just read your 1st 2 sentences. Stopped after that."

to which weazel replied

"Joel I never read your post but I'm going to argue it anyway that was awesome!"

WTE replied

"I only argued what I did read. I thought I made that clear."

That's when I insulted weazel because his suggestion was that WTE didn't read any of your post and argued with you but WTE made it clear he had read just the first 2 sentences so I was insulting weazel's reading comprehension

your turn sherlock

Yeah, I got all that; it was a valid point that it's pointLESS to dismiss a post by reading just two sentences and arguing exclusively against them. If he only read two sentences he might as well not have read any; it would be absurd to debate, say, the US Constitution based solely on reading the Preamble. Note: Not comparing my posts to the Constitution in terms of import nor eloquence, just using an example with which everyone's familiar.

Short form: When one Pats fan carries water for another it's reasonable to respond to both collectively.

Originally Posted by Joel

Yeah, I got all that; it was a valid point that it's pointLESS to dismiss a post by reading just two sentences and arguing exclusively against them. If he only read two sentences he might as well not have read any; it would be absurd to debate, say, the US Constitution based solely on reading the Preamble. Note: Not comparing my posts to the Constitution in terms of import nor eloquence, just using an example with which everyone's familiar.

Short form: When one Pats fan carries water for another it's reasonable to respond to both collectively.

Yeah but I wasn't carrying water I was making another point entirely. I am going to stop responding to you because you're all over the place.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

Let me summarize what Joel said.

Specifically, this part:

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

1) We have a much better run defense, you have a marginally better pass defense. Because teams average more yards per play passing then running, your going to come away with giving up few yards.

We actually give up LESS yards/play than they do, by a differnce as marginal as their superiority on pass plays, both dwarfed by out vast superiority on runs. It's so great that, even though opponents pass far more often than they run against both of us (50% more in our case,) we STILL give up less yards per play.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

2) Yes, yards & points are easier to come by against garbage defenses than against a team's real defense. Any football fan with a shred of objectivity knows & will acknowledge this fact, only a troll talking trash about a rival team would deny it.

So your excuse for why Moreno ran for more than 200 yards against the Pats was that you spent the entire game playing nickel in order to take the ball out of Manning's hands.

1) Isn't that the same strategy that everyone has used against Manning over the past dozen + seasons? If everyone has used that same strategy against us for the past 2 seasons, but Moreno was only able to put 200+ yards against you, what does that say about your run defense.

2) What Moreno did was a total adoration. Yes, it was your worst performance of the season, but just compare what you did in your other games to what we did all year long.

Patriots: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gamelogs::none

Broncos: http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gamelogs::none

Those numbers should be slightly daunting for NE, the more so since the strength of both teams is offense, so opponents are far more likely to ignore the run with 2:00 drills most of the second half: Even vs. gobs of passing and almost no running in desperate garbage time, NE STILL only held 3 teams <100 yds rushing all year, and we only allowed 4 teams >300 yds passing.

I wish I'd realized before you linked PFR that they already calculated Net Passing Yds Allowed/Attempt though, because it would've saved me the trouble (but it's nice to see I did the math right. ) Unfortunately, it looks like I DIDN'T do the math right on Net All Purpose Yds Allowed/Attempt, and PFR did, so I'll cite their values:

Denver: 5.303538175046555 yds/play

NE: 5.338998211091234 yds/play

It's smaller than the 0.2 yds/play I calculated but the key point remains: NEW ENGLAND GAVE UP MORE YDS/PLAY THAN DENVER. However NE wants to parse that: If our D sucks, theirs sucks MORE; if theirs is awesome, ours is "awesomer." It's only close because there are far more pass plays than runs, especially against strong offenses like ours and NEs, and that, as you pointed out, passes gain more yds/att than runs (though the difference is pretty small, only 2 yds/play.) Still, on yds/play, we're just flat better than NE, however small the margin.

Originally Posted by PatriotsGuy

Yeah but I wasn't carrying water I was making another point entirely. I am going to stop responding to you because you're all over the place.

On the contrary, I'm just following the same single thread from it's start to its current point. "Laser, rocket post" one might say.

Who is giving up more points per game? At the end of the day, that is what matters.

Originally Posted by Slick

Who is giving up more points per game? At the end of the day, that is what matters.

It kinda is, especially for anyone with money riding on it. For the record, those numbers say Denver +8 (by a hair,) +11 if we count homefield.