Thread: Breaking Down The Chiefs

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Don't know what to tell you, other than it's just mind-boggling that anyone would complain about what Thomas has done this year.

Of course, we found out he's every bit the blocker any other tight end on this team is, but you don't want to admit that, you just want to bitch about one of the best years for a tight end in team history.

Julius Thomas is "every bit the blocker any other TE on this team is"?! Contrariness is one thing, but... wow....

Hey, Ravage, remember this:

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

If you are trying to argue that Dreesen is a better blocker than Thomas, THAT has already been agreed upon. Stop trying ot make that point because no one is arguing with that.

Originally Posted by Joel

Seems like that's EXACTLY what people are trying to argue: They can't build up Thomas' blocking, so they're tearing down Dreesens instead.

Yeah, don't look now, but someone just said POINT BLANK Julius Thomas is not only as good a blocker as Dreesen, he's as good a blocker as ANY Denver TE. Fine: I showed ya'll mine, now ya'll show me ya'lls.

Originally Posted by Joel

Julius Thomas is "every bit the blocker any other TE on this team is"?! Contrariness is one thing, but... wow....

Hey, Ravage, remember this:


Yeah, don't look now, but someone just said POINT BLANK Julius Thomas is not only as good a blocker as Dreesen, he's as good a blocker as ANY Denver TE. Fine: I showed ya'll mine, now ya'll show me ya'lls.

You consider "good blocking" getting blown off the line three yards backwards, so I'm not too worried about your evaluation of the line.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

You consider "good blocking" getting blown off the line three yards backwards, so I'm not too worried about your evaluation of the line.

Never said it was good, I said it wasn't a failure. The BEST I've said of it (once) was it was "good enough." Since the only thing preventing a three time Pro Bowler tackling Ball for a loss was Dreesen, I stand by that. Ball spin move on Dreesen was nice, but didn't break Halis tackle, nor make him miss: A one-handed grab and inability to move and cut Ball off did. Balls spin move certainly didn't stand up Brian Orakpo.

You used that block as an EXAMPLE of what Thomas couldn't do. You defended that block, and STLL are trying to your best to make it sound like it actually was even a block at all. That, ALONE, gives everyone MORE than reason enough to see that you don't really know what a bad block looks like.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Dude leads the league in touchdowns and is posting Jimmy Graham/Shannon Sharpe/Tony Gonzalez numbers, and somebody is ACTUALLY BITCHING that he's seeing playing time.

Seriously. Think about that.

It's Joel. There is a reason that those in charge, are playing Thomas. Thomas gives MUCH more to this offense doing what he does in comparison to Dreesen.

Originally Posted by Joel

Yeah, that's another problem: The pretense Dreesen's some awful receiver with mittens for hands, even though he racked up dozens of catches and multiple TDs every year playing behind a Pro Bowler in Houston. Dreesen can't block, Dreesen can't catch, Shannon Sharpe can't block; it'd be easier to have faith in Orange Julius if his cheering section gave more examples of his excellence and spent less time explaining what's WRONG with EVERYONE ELSE. There's a reason he told his college coach he wanted to be a WR; it remains to be seen if he's actually a TE.

Actually.. HERE is the problem. You haven't noticed that he actually IS playing TE, and doing it fantastically!!

The REAL problem is, you have this "image" in yoru head as to what he's supposed to look like and supposed to do. Hell, you ACTUALLY said that Marino couldn't survive in today's NFL because he wasn't mobile. Probably one of the dumbest things posted, but you stick with that thought because you have it in your head that the QB HAS to be able to run at "this" level, and be able to pass at "this" level to succeed. Not only is it wrong, but its just blind.

Thomas is performing his TE duties at a level that no other TE in Denver history has. "Dreesen caught dozens of passes".... WOW.. dozens!! DId you see the TEs for KC? They "can catch" the ball too. How many of them were threatening our defense??? Anthony Fasano is basically the same TE that Dreesen is, how many TDs were you worried about Fasano scoring? DId we have to defensive gameplan to stop Fasano in the middle? Did we have to dedicate our safety to stop him?

you know who is in Julius Thomas' "cheering section?" Peyton ******* Manning.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

You used that block as an EXAMPLE of what Thomas couldn't do. You defended that block, and STLL are trying to your best to make it sound like it actually was even a block at all. That, ALONE, gives everyone MORE than reason enough to see that you don't really know what a bad block looks like.

Yes or no questions: 1) Was Hali engaged with Dreessen when Ball went by him for the TD? 2) Did Halis attempted tackle him? 3) Was there a LB OTHER than Hali filling that goal line hole?

Tight ends aren't tackles any more than they're receivers: They're tight ends. I don't expect Dreessen or any TE to pancake a LB in his prime and probably headed to his fourth straight Pro Bowl. Very few TEs can do any more than just impede a guy like that, get in his way (though Dreessen too often did better against Orakpo than the guy who IS our LT, as noted earlier.) It wasn't a good block, it was a good enough block, because it kept Hali from making a play; if the TE's not there Ball's spinning off Halis chest instead of Dreessen's butt, and I doubt that play ends like the one on Sunday.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Actually.. HERE is the problem. You haven't noticed that he actually IS playing TE, and doing it fantastically!!

He's playing WR spectacularly, but until/unless he can at least briefly slow down the guys charing our QB and RBs he's not a TE, just a big WR lined up inside. A 6" taller 50 lb. heavier Welker; that's not a TE.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

The REAL problem is, you have this "image" in yoru head as to what he's supposed to look like and supposed to do. Hell, you ACTUALLY said that Marino couldn't survive in today's NFL because he wasn't mobile. Probably one of the dumbest things posted, but you stick with that thought because you have it in your head that the QB HAS to be able to run at "this" level, and be able to pass at "this" level to succeed. Not only is it wrong, but its just blind.

Well, if we're just speculating about peoples motives, I think the REAL problem is some people have it in their heads that everything >20 years old is hopelessly obsolete because it's a Brave New World BUT everything <10 years old is just a momentary fad that will fade before the enduring consistency of common sense. Blu-Ray and CDs are the state of the art and always will be, just like VHS and 3.5" floppies before them. Actually, I WISH CDs were half as tough as 3.5" disks. Flash drives are more durable than either though, and lots of people stream movies now, but only 'cause kids think that's cool; it'll never last.

The means change, but not the ends; passers had to pass ends had to block in 1913 and they both still do in 2013. They'll keep finding new tricks to do it, because they must, but football's football.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Thomas is performing his TE duties at a level that no other TE in Denver history has. "Dreesen caught dozens of passes".... WOW.. dozens!! DId you see the TEs for KC? They "can catch" the ball too. How many of them were threatening our defense??? Anthony Fasano is basically the same TE that Dreesen is, how many TDs were you worried about Fasano scoring? DId we have to defensive gameplan to stop Fasano in the middle? Did we have to dedicate our safety to stop him?

Dozens of catches every year are an achievement, especially when splitting time with a Pro Bowler like Owen Daniels. After 10 starts Julius Thomas is on pace for about six dozen IF he starts every game (which is somewhere between Questionable and Doubtful at the moment, though that's still better than being Out of the question like his first two seasons.) I'm not worried about TEs scoring on us because we have a very good Will to cover them and an even better one starting at Mike, but yeah, Fasano and Dreesen are fairly comparable; they both get their share of balls and TDs, and they both block well: They're TEs.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

you know who is in Julius Thomas' "cheering section?" Peyton ******* Manning.

His ankles aren't, but Erik Walden's there with his forced interception to help cheer on Orange Julius. Seriously, if blocking's IRRELEVANT to TEs, what's the difference between TEs and WRs? Size? The way WRs have been bulking up and playing physical the past decade I'm not even sure THAT difference is too big anymore. Y'know what? Forget I asked, in fact, forget all the questions: You're not my coach (unless you're one of the folks who still remembers where they were 50 years ago you can't even be qualified) and I'm done being talked down to in the name of "teaching."

This is the worst debate I have ever seen.

Originally Posted by Joel

Not as long as Clark (and the rest of the line) does his job keeping Manning upright (though 2.9 yds/carry against a bottom ten run D is still inexcusable.) If his receiving's all that matters though why not line him up in the slot and compare him to Randy Moss or Jerry Rice? Seriously, why would anyone want a TE who CANNOT BLOCK? Is there some obscure NFL rule that says defenses can't put a safety or dimeback on a big WR if he's lined up at TE? Did anyone tell Eric Berry?

Because a TE that can quickly get open and catch the ball before the rush gets there helps the QB get rid of the ball quickly, which can be even more effective at slowing a pass rush than actually putting your hands on a defender and moving him. Plus, it helps the offense put points on the board. Which is what the offense is supposed to do.

Jimmy Graham isn't that great of a blocker. Antonio Gates has never been that great of a blocker. They are both very good TE's who pressure a defense much in the same way Julius Thomas does.

Yeah.. I've seen enough.

My point about Shannon Sharpe is that he didn't start out being the kind of blocker that helped pave the way for a 2000 yard rusher and had the Broncos doled out playing time based solely on ability to block Sharpe's career (and the TE position) may look far different today.

I like Dreessen, good player, but this might be one of the more ridiculous dramas in the history of this MB.