Thread: Danny Trevathan off to a running start toward Denver Broncos stardom

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Miller is not a traditional 4-3 Sam in Denver's scheme, anyway, because it's not a traditional 4-3 scheme. He just isn't. You were wrong when you said it the first time, and you're wrong now.

This sums it up. When you have a player like Miller, you don't have to run a more traditional scheme. The fact that he's great against the run and the pass just reinforces it. Denver has managed to add an additional, and incredible, pass rusher without losing anything against the run. This is to the chagrin of offenses around the league.

No, evidently it's a statement that Miller's a better SLB than MLB. That's one of the two possible explanations. I think he'd be at least as much a force in the middle. He could exploit skills underutilized at SLB (mainly coverage,) and get to the QB faster up the middle than off the edge, because closer, which is huge given elite QBs make their living getting the ball out before edge rushers arrive, but hate pressure up the middle.

That's a reasonable difference of opinion, but if we say he's at SLB because he's a natural EDGE rusher and has NEVER PLAYED MLB, we're saying he's a better SLB than MLB; no way around that.

Uh...if he's a good SLB, does that mean he's a better SLB than QB...even though he's never played...QB?

Originally Posted by Joel

No, evidently it's a statement that Miller's a better SLB than MLB. That's one of the two possible explanations. I think he'd be at least as much a force in the middle. He could exploit skills underutilized at SLB (mainly coverage,) and get to the QB faster up the middle than off the edge, because closer, which is huge given elite QBs make their living getting the ball out before edge rushers arrive, but hate pressure up the middle.

That's a reasonable difference of opinion, but if we say he's at SLB because he's a natural EDGE rusher and has NEVER PLAYED MLB, we're saying he's a better SLB than MLB; no way around that.

If that were true, defensive coordinators would put their best rusher at MLB. Since that NEVER happens, I think we can definitely say that that assumption is wrong.

Originally Posted by King87

This sums it up. When you have a player like Miller, you don't have to run a more traditional scheme. The fact that he's great against the run and the pass just reinforces it. Denver has managed to add an additional, and incredible, pass rusher without losing anything against the run. This is to the chagrin of offenses around the league.

No mention of coverage, logical since 4-3 SLBs don't play much coverage (even in our more flexible 4-3;) that implies SLB>MLB. Also a reasonable position, and one can also reasonably disagree with it.

Originally Posted by Joel

No mention of coverage, logical since 4-3 SLBs don't play much coverage (even in our more flexible 4-3;) that implies SLB>MLB. Also a reasonable position, and one can also reasonably disagree with it.

I really, really, can't be civil towards you...so I refrain from comment.

Originally Posted by Joel

No mention of coverage, logical since 4-3 SLBs don't play much coverage (even in our more flexible 4-3;) that implies SLB>MLB. Also a reasonable position, and one can also reasonably disagree with it.

It isn't a frickin' statement about which position is more important.

Good grief.

Originally Posted by King87

Uh...if he's a good SLB, does that mean he's a better SLB than QB...even though he's never played...QB?

Not necessarily; he could be an exceptional SLB AND QB (though it's unlikely since QBs have far less in common with SLBs than MLBs do.) However, if he's playing SLB, odds are he does that better than play QB, else he'd BE at QB. Except, of course, on teams that value SLBs above QBs, in which case they'd put a player equally suited for both at the more valuable position.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

If that were true, defensive coordinators would put their best rusher at MLB. Since that NEVER happens, I think we can definitely say that that assumption is wrong.

Not necessarily, because there's more to any LB position (even SLB) than blitzing; MLBs must be able to cover well, so even the best blitzer can't play the position if he can't cover. Also, there's a short list of elite QBs who can get the ball out accurately before edge rushers arrive, so pressure up the middle isn't critical every game. It IS easier to get there off the edge—it just doesn't happen FAST enough against top passers.

Originally Posted by Joel

No, evidently it's a statement that Miller's a better SLB than MLB. That's one of the two possible explanations. I think he'd be at least as much a force in the middle. He could exploit skills underutilized at SLB (mainly coverage,) and get to the QB faster up the middle than off the edge, because closer, which is huge given elite QBs make their living getting the ball out before edge rushers arrive, but hate pressure up the middle.

That's a reasonable difference of opinion, but if we say he's at SLB because he's a natural EDGE rusher and has NEVER PLAYED MLB, we're saying he's a better SLB than MLB; no way around that.

It's not that we're saying he's better SLB than MLB it's you and you alone who is making these ridiculous assumptions.

Originally Posted by Joel

No mention of coverage, logical since 4-3 SLBs don't play much coverage (even in our more flexible 4-3;) that implies SLB>MLB. Also a reasonable position, and one can also reasonably disagree with it.

I actually did mention coverage. But either way, he's an edge player. And because Denver's best player is an edge player it is not a statement that Edge > Middle. It shouldn't even be a discussion.

Was the fact that Ray Lewis played Middle Linebacker the Ravens saying they valued MLB over SLB?

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

It isn't a frickin' statement about which position is more important.

Good grief.

It is when commending a team finding a way to increase pass rush and run-stopping without even mentioning coverage. Unless LBs no longer cover? TWO 4-3 LB spots routinely do it, one (and ONLY one,) rarely.

Anyway Trevathan is terrific linebacker who likes he's going to be star in this League.


Also thanks Joel for derailing the thread with your garbage about how you think Miller should be playing middle linebacker.

Originally Posted by Joel

It is when commending a team finding a way to increase pass rush and run-stopping without even mentioning coverage. Unless LBs no longer cover? TWO 4-3 LB spots routinely do it, one (and ONLY one,) rarely.

No. It's not. Denver drafts an edge rusher, who happens to have coverage and run stopping skills, and they play him on the edge. That doesn't mean they value an edge player over a middle player. That is, quite frankly, a stupid, stupid argument. It's not even logical.

"Here, we drafted this wide receiver, but he's fast, and has good ball skills, so we should play him at running back, but since they don't they value wide receiver over running back." That's what you're saying. They drafted an edge player to play on the edge. It's not a statement by the organization as to whether or not they value one position over another. Just like playing Bailey at cornerback does not say they value cornerback over safety. It says that they have a cornerback who plays cornerback.

Anyway, you're wrong about the coverage too, as he was rated the best coverage linebacker last year too. And I mentioned coverage. Apparently you didn't read what I wrote.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

It's not that we're saying he's better SLB than MLB it's you and you alone who is making these ridiculous assumptions.

Okay, put it another way: Are ya'll arguing Denver values the positions equally? If not, shouldn't anyone who PLAYS both equally well be at the more valuable one? We're playing him at SLB because either 1) HE wouldn't be as good at MLB or 2) he'd be at least as good but WASTED there. The only other possibility is we have someone as good or better at MLB who wouldn't be as good at SLB, but that's a hard case to make.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

I actually did mention coverage. But either way, he's an edge player. And because Denver's best player is an edge player it is not a statement that Edge > Middle. It shouldn't even be a discussion.

Yes, YOU did; the person to whom I responded did not.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Was the fact that Ray Lewis played Middle Linebacker the Ravens saying they valued MLB over SLB?

That's a more complex question; they played a 3-4 as often as 4-3. But, with that caveat, yes, it was. He did everything others did at 4-3 OLB, but they couldn't do everything he could, and 4-3 MLBs must be good at everything. Guys who can't cover can play Sam if good blitzers and run-stoppers; guys who can't blitz can play Will if good run-stoppers and cover men. Guys who suck at any one of those things can't play Mike.