Thread: Paige: Manning greatest regular season QB?

I haven't seen this posted here, yet. It's obviously relevant, and pretty timely given some of the debates around here.


http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_2...-would-be-king

Considering he's been to two Super Bowls and has won 1, I don't think that's a fair label. Fan's of Tom Brady... want to say that because despite the fact that Brady has more rings, Manning is still considered to be a better QB. That rubs them the wrong way, and they retaliate with the "yeah, but....."

To some, winning the Super Bowl is the single biggest measuring stick to greatness. That's a shame, because they are missing so much more. Any person can look in a stat book and look at the column on the right side and determine the "best" if that is all you wish to go by. A six year old can do that. But those that know football, and understand football, and can truly appreciate the position that is being played and HOW it is played.... can judge a player by more than a single number in stat sheet's column.

It was a sham when they said that about Elway, it is a sham when they say that about Marino, and its a sham when it's said about Peyton Manning.

Its hard to look at QB's in the process of their career (even late) and make those kinds of declarations. I think Elway had a pretty pedestrian playoff record before the 2 Super Bowl runs bumped up his numbers, and in the end its the Super Bowls that made him legendary outside of Denver. If Manning manages to take it all this year again his reputation will be cemented.

In some ways i think he does need to at the very least make another SB to shake that legacy. To me, he is the best cerebral QB ive seen play. But his 2 SB appearances are a bit shrouded by his postseason success which is one of the reasons i will continue to favor Brady over him in the current age. I think with whatever time is left for Peyton he needs to do more damage in the postseason and at the very least get Denver back to the dance to shred some of that postseason weight.

Originally Posted by rationalfan

I haven't seen this posted here, yet. It's obviously relevant, and pretty timely given some of the debates around here.


http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_2...-would-be-king

Woody is absolutely correct....or at least his question is a valid one. And for all his effort, there is no disguising the fact that Peyton positively bristles at the notion, even though he can't possibly deny the truth of it all.

Ty Law picked him four times in a huge PO defeat in Foxboro, Porter pick-sixed him to deny him another Title, and then we have last season's bitter OT defeat following another ill-conceived Manning throw, just to name a few which come immediately to mind. I can't think of another QB who has stepped on his own pecker so often and so consistently in post-season play. He is almost a tragic figure, in that regard, and worthy of pity if you are an admirer.

He will need another SB win to even get back into the GOAT discussion and that may not be enough if Brady wins his fourth, though he does probably have the greatest regular season QB title sewn up.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Considering he's been to two Super Bowls and has won 1, I don't think that's a fair label. Fan's of Tom Brady... want to say that because despite the fact that Brady has more rings, Manning is still considered to be a better QB. That rubs them the wrong way, and they retaliate with the "yeah, but....."

To some, winning the Super Bowl is the single biggest measuring stick to greatness. That's a shame, because they are missing so much more. Any person can look in a stat book and look at the column on the right side and determine the "best" if that is all you wish to go by. A six year old can do that. But those that know football, and understand football, and can truly appreciate the position that is being played and HOW it is played.... can judge a player by more than a single number in stat sheet's column.
It was a sham when they said that about Elway, it is a sham when they say that about Marino, and its a sham when it's said about Peyton Manning.

The fact is, Peyton has directly contributed to all of his post season losses, by performing below his regular season standards and throwing picks. That's pretty much a given. So it's not a question of simply not winning more titles....it's a question of how he personally contributed to the losses which NE fans are pointing to, and NOT the number of rings, per se.

The Pats have lost two SBs to the Giants because their D could not stop NY......but not because Brady handed the game away with game-clinching brain farts. That's the difference from a NE fan's perspective.

Originally Posted by Mr Bojangles

The fact is, Peyton has directly contributed to all of his post season losses, by performing below his regular season standards and throwing picks. That's pretty much a given. So it's not a question of simply not winning more titles....it's a question of how he personally contributed to the losses which NE fans are pointing to, and NOT the number of rings, per se.

The Pats have lost two SBs to the Giants because their D could not stop NY......but not because Brady handed the game away with game-clinching brain farts. That's the difference from a NE fan's perspective.

yeah.. This isn't biased in the least!!

This is why you can't be taken seriously when you post.

Originally Posted by Mr Bojangles

Woody is absolutely correct....or at least his question is a valid one. And for all his effort, there is no disguising the fact that Peyton positively bristles at the notion, even though he can't possibly deny the truth of it all.

Ty Law picked him four times in a huge PO defeat in Foxboro, Porter pick-sixed him to deny him another Title, and then we have last season's bitter OT defeat following another ill-conceived Manning throw, just to name a few which come immediately to mind. I can't think of another QB who has stepped on his own pecker so often and so consistently in post-season play. He is almost a tragic figure, in that regard, and worthy of pity if you are an admirer.

He will need another SB win to even get back into the GOAT discussion and that may not be enough if Brady wins his fourth, though he does probably have the greatest regular season QB title sewn up.

Brett Favre?

This is suggested reading for everyone.
http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...or-help/20868/

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

yeah.. This isn't biased in the least!!

This is why you can't be taken seriously when you post.

It might be biased, but they are some pretty legitimate points...Both Pat's losses Brady had his team in position to win and played pretty well overall.

Many of Peyton's playoff woes have been accompanied by underperformance or timely mistakes that you would expect from Brett Favre.

That being said, I do adhere to the school of thought that many of those Indy teams weren't really that good and probably wouldn't have found themselves sniffing .500 were it not for Peyton...Pats still managed to win 11 games w/out Brady.

i think you guys are missing one of woody's key points: the difference between the perception of manning now and the perception of elway prior to his two SB wins isn't much different. obviously, no one thinks of elway that way now.

it's easy to react immediately, but it's hard to realize that reaction isn't always right.

Originally Posted by vandammage13

It might be biased, but they are some pretty legitimate points...Both Pat's losses Brady had his team in position to win and played pretty well overall.

Many of Peyton's playoff woes have been accompanied by underperformance or timely mistakes that you would expect from Brett Favre.

That being said, I do adhere to the school of thought that many of those Indy teams weren't really that good and probably wouldn't have found themselves sniffing .500 were it not for Peyton...Pats still managed to win 11 games w/out Brady.

No. That is the EXCUSES given and a VERY closed mind as to exactly what happened during all those games. It's absolutely RIDICULOUS to say that Manning had a hand in his losses, yet Brady was just a bad observer of the things that "happened to him" during BOTH his losses to Eli.

It's funny that you just said that Brady "had his team in position to win" in a paragraph that agrees with someone that is saying that Peyton had a hand in the playoff losses. Remind me again, wasn't the Broncos in a "position to win" before our DBs gave up a ridiculously stupid TD to Baltimore??

Jingles observation is absolutely not legitimate. It's an opinion, and a very biased one.

Originally Posted by rationalfan

i think you guys are missing one of woody's key points: the difference between the perception of manning now and the perception of elway prior to his two SB wins isn't much different. obviously, no one thinks of elway that way now.

it's easy to react immediately, but it's hard to realize that reaction isn't always right.

I've been saying, that ALLLL the ridiculous "perceptions" immediately change after a single game. "Tampa Bay can't win the Super Bowl"..until they do. This guy can't win in windy weather.... until he does. This QB will never win a play off game... until he takes his team and wins one.

It's all exaggerated hyperbole that people like throw around as if these observations of the past make them facts. It's no different than someone looking at the dark of night and stating "the world is dark"....well, until the sun rises.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Considering he's been to two Super Bowls and has won 1, I don't think that's a fair label. Fan's of Tom Brady... want to say that because despite the fact that Brady has more rings, Manning is still considered to be a better QB. That rubs them the wrong way, and they retaliate with the "yeah, but....."

To some, winning the Super Bowl is the single biggest measuring stick to greatness. That's a shame, because they are missing so much more. Any person can look in a stat book and look at the column on the right side and determine the "best" if that is all you wish to go by. A six year old can do that. But those that know football, and understand football, and can truly appreciate the position that is being played and HOW it is played.... can judge a player by more than a single number in stat sheet's column.

It was a sham when they said that about Elway, it is a sham when they say that about Marino, and its a sham when it's said about Peyton Manning.

Completely agree. Peyton Manning is easily a top 5 QB of all time be it regular season, playoffs, or preseason. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is just wrong.

Originally Posted by rationalfan

i think you guys are missing one of woody's key points: the difference between the perception of manning now and the perception of elway prior to his two SB wins isn't much different. obviously, no one thinks of elway that way now.

it's easy to react immediately, but it's hard to realize that reaction isn't always right.

I dont think we missed the point (at least i didnt). Even before Denver got the 2 SB wins i always considered him a HOF. When i look at the careers for John and Peyton they are vastly different for me. John basically carried his teams to the SB very early on and while he played pretty poorly in the big games he also did a lot of the most unthinkable things when thought they were dead in the water. I know Manning has comebacks in his career but none of them shine the way they do for John. Even when we allowed the Ravens to tie up the game last year i never had the feeling that we would win. Had that been John, i would of felt totally different and you have to ask yourself why that is. Unfortunately, as smart as Manning is and although he is a competitor i dont have nearly the confidence in him to get it done when we really need him too and a lot of that stems from his work in the postseason when the games really matter.

Originally Posted by Northman

I dont think we missed the point (at least i didnt). Even before Denver got the 2 SB wins i always considered him a HOF. When i look at the careers for John and Peyton they are vastly different for me. John basically carried his teams to the SB very early on and while he played pretty poorly in the big games he also did a lot of the most unthinkable things when thought they were dead in the water. I know Manning has comebacks in his career but none of them shine the way they do for John. Even when we allowed the Ravens to tie up the game last year i never had the feeling that we would win. Had that been John, i would of felt totally different and you have to ask yourself why that is. Unfortunately, as smart as Manning is and although he is a competitor i dont have nearly the confidence in him to get it done when we really need him too and a lot of that stems from his work in the postseason when the games really matter.

Manning has more 4th quarter/OT comeback wins than Elway. I'm not necessarily saying that makes him better, but he does have more comeback wins. Elway's probably stick out to you more because his were all with the Broncos and Manning's were for another team.