Thread: Kobe Bryant's Top 5 NBA players of all time.

Originally Posted by King87

Kareem dominated the league as a Laker in a way that hasn't been done since. Magic is the greatest passer the league has ever seen. He made everyone on his team better. Kobe doesn't make players on his team better. You can argue that he did later in his career, and I wouldn't say that it's an unfair statement, though I disagree. Even then, it took a long time for that to happen.

I find that statement laughable players like Pau who was 0-16 in playoffs before joining the Lakers Kobe put him over the top. Players who have had career years playing with Kobe statistically goes as follows Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, Andrew Bynum, Shaq, just on top of my head.

As far as the all-star argument goes, that's typical of any team that has title aspirations. Kobe didn't do squat without Shaq until they got Pau. As far as Kobe vs Shaq, the consenus seems to be that Shaq was better then, but overall Kobe was the better player. As far as Magic's terrible situation goes, he was having sex. He was having sex in a time where AIDS wasn't all that well-known. I'm not so sure if that could be qualified as a terrible situation.

Kobe had terrible D-league type players 06/07 such as Kwame Brown, Luke Walton, Brian Cook, Smush Parker. Kobe almost pulled off upset against the number one team in Phoenix Suns that season. Kobe peak and prime career were wasted on garbage players that season were out of the NBA. Where are they now? Lakers were going against stacked western conference teams like Spurs, Suns, Mavericks, with earlier 2000's teams with Kings, Blazers that decade (2000's) overall was stacked compared to weaker East.

As far as Magic's game versus Kobe's game, I'm going to take Magic all day. If you're telling me that one guy is a great scorer, is often selfish, and has an incredible array of scoring abilities, I can live with it. If you tell me that another guy is a good scorer, a decent defender, the greatest passer the league has ever seen and he makes good players great and great players greater, I'm taking Magic Johnson. So much of Kobe's argument is centered on what he was for himself. That's fine. We're talking about individuals. But when an individual makes other's play rise to levels like Magic, I'm not taking too many guys ahead of him, and Kobe isn't one of them.

That's cool. Magic was fan favorite so no surprise you picked Magic. It's funny Kobe for his career average averaged less than 3 shots a game compared to immortal MJ who was never labelled selfish and ballhog. No, Kobe argument is having better accolades and statically better than Magic as I posted above all franchise records Kobe accomplished. I have Magic at #4 his career was only 12 years which isn't long. No offense to Magic but he never had few months as good as this. Just another incredible game over the greatest scoring stretch in NBA history: Kobe Bryant 62pts in 3quarters vs Dirk's Mavs. Kobe had to be restrained during the 4th quarter or could of had maybe another 80 point game. I might add that team was great defenselessly and made the NBA finals that year against the Miami Heat.

2005-2007:
34 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 APG/27 PER/115 ORTG/57% TS
45 40+ pt games
18 50+ pt games
5 60+ pt games
4 different months averaging 40+ PPG

Yes, those were better scoring averages then MJ ever had. If you want compare era's.

1987, 1988, 1989

Average points per game 109.9, 108.2, 109.2
Average offensive rating 108.3, 108.0, 107.8

2005, 2006, 2007

Average points per game 97.2, 97.0, 98.7
Average offensive rating 106.1, 106.2, 106.5

I also don't think it's fair to say that Kobe did more with less. Kobe won how many rings with one of the greatest centers ever? Kobe bombed out until Pao and Bynum turned into good players. When the Lakers won a title, they had the most talented team in the NBA. What you're arguing just isn't accurate, at least to me.

The 5 -9 vs 5-7 argument is a decent one.

I also don't understand the global part and jersey sales matter?

Typical Kobe hater response bombed out? How please explain. Just that Kobe is most popular player globally in NBA history yes over MJ. My answers above are in bold.

Kobe won 3 with Shaq? What did Shaq win without having some of best perimeter guards in NBA history? Nothing. The dude was blessed playing with Penny Hardaway, Dwayne Wade, and Kobe. Shaq won one ring without Kobe but Kobe won two without Shaq. So that equals Kobe > Shaq.

Shaq held Kobe back scoring wise big time. I remember the game in 2002 when he scored 56 in 3 quarters against Memphis. I remember Shaq was out and I was like,this should be fun. Bam. 56 in 3 quarters. So stupid Kobe doesn't have a 70 point game. He was on pace for it so many times. Without Shaq, he'd likely have like 10 career 70 point games. The reality is, Kobe should've had his own team since he was 21. Season 00/01. He was more than ready. I think Kobe became the lakers #1 in 2003 but it was still a Shaq centric triangle at that point. Only when Phil came back the second time, he had Kobe as a centerpiece of the offense.

But no regrets I guess. Kobe's great as it is. Felt he could've been even more, perhaps much more but worked out in the end and it's all that matters.

I'm not a Kobe hater. It does seem pretty telling that you're quick to call anyone who disagrees with you a "Kobe hater."


Why are you comparing Jordan to Kobe for scoring? Jordan is tied first all-time for points per game. You can make fun of Pau and company all you want. I'm sorry, Kobe didn't win until he got there. Pao was very good for the Lakers during their title years. He was a good player before Kobe as well. When the Pao trade was made, I remember on t.v. a color commentator said that one NBA GM called that trade highway robbery. You didn't do much to discredit my argument.

As far as the ballhog term goes. Take it up with pretty much everyone else who watched Kobe play in his era. http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/kobe-b...es-a-ball-hog/ How many articles like that can I find? A lot. A lot of them. During his prime years a lot of analysts called him the best player in the game. I think he was. But a lot of analysts said that Duncan was the best player in the NBA because he was a great defender, a great rebounder, a seven footer, a great passing big man, and just an all around better player for the team. There's some truth to that as well.

As far as the Magic being a fan favorite and that's why I picked him, dude, you're showing your incredible bias. You're also showing your short-sighted view here. All you're doing is arguing points. You're judging your view point off of points and points alone. I don't care if a player has a ton of fifty point games, 60 point games or seventy point games. If that's the criteria than Wilt's better than Kobe too. Wilt had a 100 point game. http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Le...ntsingame.html Look at that list of most points per game. Wilt Chamberlain is that list. That category might as well be named "Wilt Chamberlain and a couple other guys." And if we're going to do the rings talk, then certainly Russell is ahead of just about everyone, including Kobe, right?


I don't think you're going to see Kobe in the top five of many people's lists, Chillez.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/T...photo=30219324

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...rs-of-all-time


Those are far from the gospel, but I went through a couple other lists and sometimes didn't even see Bryant in the top ten, let alone top three. And let's be honest, when it's all said and done, a lot of people are going to be arguing for LeBron James to be higher than Kobe as well. I might not agree with that as I much prefer Kobe to LBJ, but it's true.

Originally Posted by King87

I'm not a Kobe hater. It does seem pretty telling that you're quick to call anyone who disagrees with you a "Kobe hater."


Why are you comparing Jordan to Kobe for scoring? Jordan is tied first all-time for points per game. You can make fun of Pau and company all you want. I'm sorry, Kobe didn't win until he got there. Pao was very good for the Lakers during their title years. He was a good player before Kobe as well. When the Pao trade was made, I remember on t.v. a color commentator said that one NBA GM called that trade highway robbery. You didn't do much to discredit my argument.

As far as the ballhog term goes. Take it up with pretty much everyone else who watched Kobe play in his era. http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/kobe-b...es-a-ball-hog/ How many articles like that can I find? A lot. A lot of them. During his prime years a lot of analysts called him the best player in the game. I think he was. But a lot of analysts said that Duncan was the best player in the NBA because he was a great defender, a great rebounder, a seven footer, a great passing big man, and just an all around better player for the team. There's some truth to that as well.

As far as the Magic being a fan favorite and that's why I picked him, dude, you're showing your incredible bias. You're also showing your short-sighted view here. All you're doing is arguing points. You're judging your view point off of points and points alone. I don't care if a player has a ton of fifty point games, 60 point games or seventy point games. If that's the criteria than Wilt's better than Kobe too. Wilt had a 100 point game. http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Le...ntsingame.html Look at that list of most points per game. Wilt Chamberlain is that list. That category might as well be named "Wilt Chamberlain and a couple other guys." And if we're going to do the rings talk, then certainly Russell is ahead of just about everyone, including Kobe, right?


I don't think you're going to see Kobe in the top five of many people's lists, Chillez.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/lists/T...photo=30219324

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...rs-of-all-time


Those are far from the gospel, but I went through a couple other lists and sometimes didn't even see Bryant in the top ten, let alone top three. And let's be honest, when it's all said and done, a lot of people are going to be arguing for LeBron James to be higher than Kobe as well. I might not agree with that as I much prefer Kobe to LBJ, but it's true.

That's cool whatever you say. You are showing your biased in this thread. I showed you actually facts and evidence. You have few articles. At same time I see more that say Kobe is greatest Laker of all time and in top 5. Most of world as Kobe in top 5. In an annual survey of NBA general managers, Bryant was selected in 2012 for the 10th consecutive season as the player they most wanted taking the shot with the game on the line. Both Sporting News and TNT named Bryant the NBA player of the 2000s (decade). MJ himself says Kobe is only player in NBA history past or present that deserves comparisons to himself. No offense but your basketball knowledge is lacking here you said Kobe wasn't winner until Pau Gasol arrived. What? Last I checked Kobe was 3x NBA champion before the Pau Gasol trade. Wilt is amazing but he was post season failure who only ended up winning 2 rings he should of had more. Wilt scored 100 against 5"8 unathletic white dudes in 50's, 60's, and 70's era the athletes today are way more evolved and athletic. I guarantee you Wilt would be dominate today but not near of what he was back then. Here is great article on it. Kobe 81 game > Wilt 100.

Still, Kobe's 81 was better.The Mamba took 17 fewer shots, 12 fewer free throws, didn't have his team fouling to get him the ball, had fewer possessions and still only came up 19 short of Wilt. He scored 55 points after halftime. That's only 14 short of Jordan's career-high. Forget what math and maybe common sense tells you. Eight-one is greater than 100.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/e...48484/35060192 Kobe was more impressive overall.

Kobe is very good to great passer when he wants to be. It's just more natural for him to shoot first pass second. Kobe has led his team in assists every year, except one, for over a decade.

Playoff Assists amongst non-point guards:
Larry Bird 1062
Scottie Pippen 1048
Kobe Bryant 1040

"Kobe's become the floor leader of a basketball team that was kind of looking for that nature of a player, who could not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker or consistently make big plays at critical times," Jackson said. "So it was very important for Kobe to step into that role that he was envisioned at. I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe, and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now.

"And I think it's the best that I've ever seen a player of mine play with an overall court game. I'm asking him to do so much, and he's accomplishing it."

Jackson was quickly asked for a clarification. That includes Michael Jordan?

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player that I've ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game, and I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. But Kobe has to set up the offense, to advance the ball, to read the defense, to make other players happy, and he's doing a great job of that." - Phil Jackson 2001

Kobe has been leading SG for assist year in and year out most of his career. He has 6,000 career assist. Not bad for one dimensional player according to you.

Here are some stats for you on Kobe and Shaq years.

Shaq & Kobe were 1A/1B in 2001 & 2002

2001 NBA Playoffs
Shaq - 30.4 ppg, 15.4 rpg, 3.2 apg, 55.5 FG%, 56.4 TS%
Kobe - 29.4 ppg, 7.3 rpg, 6.1 apg, 46.9 FG%, 55.5 TS%

2002 NBA Playoffs
Shaq - 28.5 ppg, 12.6 rpg, 2.8 apg, 52.9 FG%, 56.9 TS%
Kobe - 26.6 ppg, 5.8 rpg, 4.6 apg, 43.4 FG%, 51.1 TS%

Kobe led the lakers in PPG and APG through through entire Western Conference Playoffs in 2001 and 2002

2001 NBA Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 31.6 PPG, 7.0 RPG, 6.3 APG, .492 FG%
Shaq - 29.3 PPG, 15.3 RPG, 2.5 APG, .547 FG%

2002 NBA Playoffs - First 3 Rounds
Kobe - 26.6 PPG, 5.8 RPG, 4.4 APG, .418 FG%
Shaq - 26.4 PPG, 12.7 RPG, 2.6 APG, .510 FG%

Kobe led the Lakers in PPG and APG in 2/4 series in 2001 and 2/4 series in 2002. A total of 4/8 series both years combined.

2001 Western Conf Semifnals
2001 Western Conf Finals
2002 Western Conf 1st Round
2002 Western Conf Semifinals

Kobe led the Lakers in Field Goals Made in the 2nd Half and 4th Quarters of the 2002 NBA Playoffs

2002 NBA Playoffs - 2nd Half+OT
Bryant - 97/214 FG, 17/37 3PT, 45.3 FG%, 49.3 eFG%, 45.9 3PT% in 19 games
O'Neal - 85/186 FG, 0/0 3PT, 45.7 FG%, 45.7 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 19 games

2002 NBA Playoffs - 4th Quarter+OT
Bryant - 52/106 FG, 12/24 3PT, 49.1 FG%, 54.7 eFG%, 50.0 3PT% in 19 games
O'Neal - 32/85 FG, 0/0 3PT, 37.6 FG%, 37.6 eFG%, 0.0 3PT% in 18 games

IMO.. they were equally great players who played off each other's strengths.

When comes to MJ he had a better supporting cast than Kobe's 2009 and 2010 Lakers. Here are few videos.



Better yet let's ask the guy that coached both MJ and Kobe in their prime for majority of their careers. He saw both play while winning 11 rings between the two. GOAT NBA coach.



Here is more. The great Jerry West. Better known as the logo of the NBA.



Better yet let's ask greatest NCAA basketball coach of all-time his opinion. The legendary John Wooden. The guy only watched all of greatest basketball players in last 80 years.



Let's ask biggest Laker hater in the NBA media who has criticized and nit picked Kobe for years and the man who hates Kobe with burning passion. Charles Barkley opinion.



Should I keep going or are you done? I can do this all day. Greatest basketball coaches and players in NBA history view on Kobe Bryant >>> Your opinion.

http://www.foxsportswest.com/02/07/1...blockID=661658

Dr J says if he had to pick between LeBron and Kobe he picks ... Bryant. Says Kobe 1 of top 5 players of all time.

Link: https://twitter.com/APgelston/status...59966164180993

There's a reason Julius Erving is referred to as Dr. J, he's one of the smartest basketball player in the history of the game. not surprised by his comment at all, clearly knowledgeable.

Dirk Nowitzki: Kobe Bryant 'number one player' over last 15 years.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb...r-one-20130213

Miami Heat’s Dwyane Wade Says ‘Kobe Is Greatest Of Our Era”

http://www.sportscity.com/miami-heat...ra/2013/02/15/

Larry Bird expounds on his choice of Kobe Bryant over LeBron James

When Larry Bird speaks, it’s still a big deal.

When Bird chooses Kobe Bryant over LeBron James as the modern-day player he would like to have had as a teammate — as the Indiana Pacers team president did on ESPN.com in March — the choice resonates.

“Well, probably Kobe,” Bird told Bill Simmons at the time. “Because of the fact that … well, of course he wouldn’t have been shooting as much as he does now … but his desire to win, his dedication to always get better, and he’s just, he’s just tough. He’s just a tough cat.”

Bird added that “if you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, [you] play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it’s Kobe. Not that LeBron’s not a winner, just that [Kobe's] mindset is to go into every practice, every game, to get better.”

In light of all the shots and slights LeBron has absorbed since relocating to Miami two summers ago, I asked Bird about those comments on Monday.


“I’ve been a Kobe fan since he was a little kid,” Bird told me. ”I coached against Kobe [in the 2000 NBA Finals]. They made a lot out of that. I said if you want to have fun, you play with Bill Walton. Me and Bill Walton won the most games we ever played. We had a blast doing it. We knew we were going to win a championship. That’s just the way it is.

“But Kobe has always been my favorite, ever since he was a little kid coming into this league. I played against his dad. But LeBron is just spectacular.”

And how would things have gone if Bird and LeBron had matched up against each other in some Tupac Hologram Time Traveler’s Association?

“I would have loved to have played against all these guys,” Bird said with a wry smile. “That’s what competitors do. They like to play against the best. I played with some great ones and obviously LeBron is great. I had an opportunity to play against great players. I enjoyed it.”

Link: http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports...ron-james.html

Let's look here on Robert Horry view on Kobe. Don't forget he played with all three Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan during his playing career. Audio interview.

He has it as follows.
1) Kobe
2) Duncan
3) Shaq

Career and peak play. Wow who would of guessed that?

http://nyc.podcast.play.it/media/d0/...dO/12W7O_3.MP3

/thread

I bet it was pretty cool back in the day with the best dunkers like MJ would be in the dunk contest and the best shooter like Bird would be in the 3pt shootout.

Originally Posted by dbfan2007

I bet it was pretty cool back in the day with the best dunkers like MJ would be in the dunk contest and the best shooter like Bird would be in the 3pt shootout.

Agreed. I miss both MJ and Bird, he was a amazing player sucks he got bad back during end of his career around 1900 and was forced to retire soon after.

Another cool video.



Jason Kidd. The Best Player I Ever Played Against. MJ and Kobe are top 2 hardest to guard.



You showed us.

NBA coaching legend Phil Jackson is something of an authority on what it takes to win championships, but he typically hasn't weighed in on the more contentious basketball topics about which players are best or give their teams the best chance to win. In promoting his new book "Eleven Rings: The Soul of Success," Jackson has switched up his approach and made some stronger statements on these debates. For instance, he's directly compared Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant for the first time ever, adding to an argument that probably won't stop even after science allows us to pit their clones against each other in hand-to-hand combat.

Jackson dodged when asked to select between Jordan and Lakers guard Kobe Bryant, whom he coached to five titles between 2000 and 2010.

“I would flip a coin,” he said. “Whichever one came up heads or tails, I’d take that person. They were that good.”

Bill Russell “In my estimation, the guy that has to be there would be Bill Russell. He has won 11 championships as a player,” Jackson said in an interview with Time. “That’s really the idea of what excellence is, when you win championships

Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...004452630.html

Wow. Someone wants Kobe deep inside them. Obsess much?

**** the Lakers anyways. They buy their team every year. Nice to see them get burned with Howard. They will suck for awhile, and that is alright with me.

Originally Posted by atwater27

Wow. Someone wants Kobe deep inside them. Obsess much?

Nah, just speaking the truth here. Haters gonna hate. Anyone that makes dumb and stupid comments without facts or little b-ball knowledge. Is enough for me.

Rapist.

Originally Posted by atwater27

**** the Lakers anyways. They buy their team every year. Nice to see them get burned with Howard. They will suck for awhile, and that is alright with me.

Home of 16 NBA championships. Arguably greatest franchise in sports history only the Yankees have a case. Truth hurts. You sound jelly.

Originally Posted by BroncoJoe

Rapist.

That was so 10+ years ago. Come on man, get some new material that's irreverent. Anyways, Kobe never committed rape he was found innocent of rape charges against him, he just committed adultery.