Thread: Jets bypass Tim Tebow, name Greg McElroy the starting quarterback

Originally Posted by catfish

I was actually trying to be give them the benefit of the doubt that they had some kind of reason for doing it, no matter how horrible a QB they think he is it makes zero sense not to play him in a game that has literally zero meaning and instead go back to the starter that you benched for poor performance in the first place.

Some kind of reason? Is there a better reason for not playing a QB than thinking he's horrible? Why is it that Tim Tebow is the only horrible QB that is immune to this? The league is full of QB's that can't play QB but when it's Tim Tebow it's a massive ******* controversy and conspiracy when he isn't starting.......

Originally Posted by Jaded

Some kind of reason? Is there a better reason for not playing a QB than thinking he's horrible? Why is it that Tim Tebow is the only horrible QB that is immune to this? The league is full of QB's that can't play QB but when it's Tim Tebow it's a massive ******* controversy and conspiracy when he isn't starting.......

well they already benched their starter for being terrible, the backup is out hurt. They are eliminated from the playoffs so the game has literally no meaning and most likely it will be a lot of backup players getting time. There are most likely going to be a lot of players on the field for the jets who aren't the best at their position. They gave up 11 sacks last week and the QB was getting hit on basically every play, if nothing else I would throw him out there so Sanchez didn't get hurt this week. Holding the backup out for being terrible would be valid if this game had meaning, it has none so you start to wonder what the thought process is. If they put Tebow in and he loses is vindicates the coaching staff for not playing him all year, why not put him in and show everyone how much he sucks?

Originally Posted by catfish

as to what it takes to get on the field the question becomes where is the bar set to make the coach a believer? Sanchez has 13 TD to 17 ints, multiple fumbles, a 54% completion rating a 6.4 YPA and a passer rating of 67.9, all of those stats with the exception of completion% are worse than any numbers Tebow put up last year, he already got benched for too many turnovers and they went to the backup guy, I can't think of a single reason why you would go back to your original starter that is based on football reasons except the possibility that I put forth and was mocked for, he is going to be traded in the offseason

While i agree with this i again have to ask why Tim would be passed up? And i dont want to hear the excuses about Rex's ego, etc etc. Winning is winning and no coach is going to just give up a chance to win to send a point to the fans. There is another reason and it seems that Tebow hasnt done what it takes to prove he has improved or given them a reason to start him.

Originally Posted by Northman

While i agree with this i again have to ask why Tim would be passed up? And i dont want to hear the excuses about Rex's ego, etc etc. Winning is winning and no coach is going to just give up a chance to win to send a point to the fans. There is another reason and it seems that Tebow hasnt done what it takes to prove he has improved or given them a reason to start him.

It's almost certain that Rex didn't see whatever it was he wanted to see, but is what he wanted to see a reasonable bar? You are talking about a coach that for 4 years has stuck with one of the worst 4 QB's in the league and a FO that just signed that QB to a contract that made him one of the top paid QB's in the league. Sanchez has had 50 turnovers in the last 2 years, the worst in the NFL. I have no doubt that Tebow looks bad in practice, but Sanchez has looked terrible in games how they look in practice at some point needs to be set to the side and instead you need to ask how much worse could it possibly be, and if it is worse what difference will it make? You know what you are getting with Sanchez based on 14 games this year and it is horrible, McElroy is hurt, you are hovering between a player who you think sucks based on practice vs. a player you know sucks based on games.

Teams make personel decisions based on other than football reasons all the time, hence the reason why Tebow saw the field last year, also the reason why people were so surprised when Russel Wilson played and Carrol was applauded for such a ballsy move. Fact is Sanchez will be with the Jets next year due to his contract, Tebow will not be on the Jets roster next year. If they play Tebow and he wins this game, next year could be a nightmare of "why did we cut Tebow and keep Sanchez" if they don't play him they fire the OC and the GM and move in to next year without the drama

Originally Posted by catfish

It's almost certain that Rex didn't see whatever it was he wanted to see, but is what he wanted to see a reasonable bar? You are talking about a coach that for 4 years has stuck with one of the worst 4 QB's in the league and a FO that just signed that QB to a contract that made him one of the top paid QB's in the league. Sanchez has had 50 turnovers in the last 2 years, the worst in the NFL. I have no doubt that Tebow looks bad in practice, but Sanchez has looked terrible in games how they look in practice at some point needs to be set to the side and instead you need to ask how much worse could it possibly be, and if it is worse what difference will it make? You know what you are getting with Sanchez based on 14 games this year and it is horrible, McElroy is hurt, you are hovering between a player who you think sucks based on practice vs. a player you know sucks based on games.

Teams make personel decisions based on other than football reasons all the time, hence the reason why Tebow saw the field last year, also the reason why people were so surprised when Russel Wilson played and Carrol was applauded for such a ballsy move. Fact is Sanchez will be with the Jets next year due to his contract, Tebow will not be on the Jets roster next year. If they play Tebow and he wins this game, next year could be a nightmare of "why did we cut Tebow and keep Sanchez" if they don't play him they fire the OC and the GM and move in to next year without the drama

Thats of course if he wins a game.

But, in terms of why Ryan never played Tebow we are both in agreement. I agree that (if i were Rex) if i wanted to prove that Tebow would do no better i would throw him in there and let him flounder. From that aspect we both agree that he should of put him in weeks ago. But, each coach goes about it differently and apparently Rex is sold on the idea that Sanchez is his guy. Whether that means Mark will be there next year no one knows but it does seem that Tebow wasnt able to impress Ryan enough to start him over McElroy or that Ryan just believes that Tim is a wildcat kind of player.

As too Wilson, he went out and just flatly outperformed Flynn both in practice and in the preseason thats why he won the starting job. I know people like to hold onto last year when Tebow sucked in practiced but was able to will this team to the playoffs but again that just isnt the norm. And a lot of other things had to happen last year to even get us to that point. You simply cannot rely on other division opponents losing critical games or players like Barber shitting themselves late in games. Sure, Tebow had moments of brillance but i still contend that anyone who watched last year objectively saw that he had a lot of major flaws that would not enable a team to keep winning like that no matter who it was.

Why Rex never used Tebow more during the season i dont know. Maybe he is just a bad HC alltogether but i still believe that even if Tebow was on Jaguars that he wouldnt be beating out Gabbert as the starter. Even if he was on the Patriots right now would he really be doing anything that Hernadez could do and did vs us last year in the playoffs. I believe that not only Elway, but Rex Ryan and even Bill Belichek see Tebow is simply as a wildcat guy and not a starting QB. I still hold hope that Tim will just suck it up and play another position. He has the athleticism to do some great things but if he's going to keep trying to force the square peg into the round hole he's going to watch his NFL career slip by. Being confident is one thing, you can never take that away from him. But reality is sometimes tough to swallow and i think he is at that point right now.

Originally Posted by catfish

well they already benched their starter for being terrible, the backup is out hurt. They are eliminated from the playoffs so the game has literally no meaning and most likely it will be a lot of backup players getting time. There are most likely going to be a lot of players on the field for the jets who aren't the best at their position. They gave up 11 sacks last week and the QB was getting hit on basically every play, if nothing else I would throw him out there so Sanchez didn't get hurt this week. Holding the backup out for being terrible would be valid if this game had meaning, it has none so you start to wonder what the thought process is. If they put Tebow in and he loses is vindicates the coaching staff for not playing him all year, why not put him in and show everyone how much he sucks?

Perhaps the Jets already have a pretty good idea what it'd look like and have no interest in putting him in there just to jerk off his ridiculous fanbase. Rex Ryan had said they didn't bring Tebow in to be a starter, apparently they meant it.......

Originally Posted by Northman

Thats of course if he wins a game.

But, in terms of why Ryan never played Tebow we are both in agreement. I agree that (if i were Rex) if i wanted to prove that Tebow would do no better i would throw him in there and let him flounder. From that aspect we both agree that he should of put him in weeks ago. But, each coach goes about it differently and apparently Rex is sold on the idea that Sanchez is his guy. Whether that means Mark will be there next year no one knows but it does seem that Tebow wasnt able to impress Ryan enough to start him over McElroy or that Ryan just believes that Tim is a wildcat kind of player.

As too Wilson, he went out and just flatly outperformed Flynn both in practice and in the preseason thats why he won the starting job. I know people like to hold onto last year when Tebow sucked in practiced but was able to will this team to the playoffs but again that just isnt the norm. And a lot of other things had to happen last year to even get us to that point. You simply cannot rely on other division opponents losing critical games or players like Barber shitting themselves late in games. Sure, Tebow had moments of brillance but i still contend that anyone who watched last year objectively saw that he had a lot of major flaws that would not enable a team to keep winning like that no matter who it was.

Why Rex never used Tebow more during the season i dont know. Maybe he is just a bad HC alltogether but i still believe that even if Tebow was on Jaguars that he wouldnt be beating out Gabbert as the starter. Even if he was on the Patriots right now would he really be doing anything that Hernadez could do and did vs us last year in the playoffs. I believe that not only Elway, but Rex Ryan and even Bill Belichek see Tebow is simply as a wildcat guy and not a starting QB. I still hold hope that Tim will just suck it up and play another position. He has the athleticism to do some great things but if he's going to keep trying to force the square peg into the round hole he's going to watch his NFL career slip by. Being confident is one thing, you can never take that away from him. But reality is sometimes tough to swallow and i think he is at that point right now.

Pretty well argued, though I don't buy all of it. I think the truth is coaches, like anyone else, will be captives to their own prejudices and fixed ideas. The second raters and/or duds will get stubborn when pushed and fall back on stupid cliches like "he gives us our best chance to win" or some such rubbish, thereby revealing that they basically suck at leadership and management. There is really is no great secret Gnostic body of knowledge that only coaches are privy to - and even the good and great ones make big time errors. Anyone remember Dan Reeve's fixation on Tommy Maddox? In the case of the J-E-T-S Rex didn't want to use Tebow, period. He is stubborn and stupid, which pretty much explains the whole situation, which looks to me like a total full-on Cluster **** between ownership, GM, and Coach. None of these idiots seem to have talked to each other.

Now, as for Tebow, there has been a fair bit of echoing of the extremely shallow and silly analysis heard from ESPN hacks. Tebow can't throw? Nonsense. He can and at times he did throw a good ball, and a very good deep ball. Now, that said, he needed eons of time, his release is slow-to-glacial, his ability to improvise when his primary receiver isn't getting open is very poor, he is risk averse, and often indecisive. Those often killed our passing last year. I suspect its why he could be effective out of play action, and perhaps why he performed so well at the end of games - he started reacting and not trying to overthink everything.

All of these add up to a tough job for a coach. Is Tebow teachable? I dunno, I haven't tried. he did some really cool stuff in 2011, and I think he warrants achance to learn to play the game properly. Coaches are, however, risk averse creatures themselves, especially the ones clinging to their jobs by their fingernails, and those would tend to be the stubborn and stupid ones. These guys sure don't want to risk their meal tickets and reputations trying to turn Tebow into a good NFL QB. A perfect circle. Of course, banking on a chump like Mark Sanchez is a good way to go unemployed too, so it remains a mystery why Rex Ryan didn't even try rolling the dice, unless you want to consider blind pig headed obstinacy.


PS. I am now even more convinced than ever that John Fox and Mike McCoy are geniuses for having cobbled together and operated a playoff offense, however weird, out of the parts available to them in 2011.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

Pretty well argued, though I don't buy all of it. I think the truth is coaches, like anyone else, will be captives to their own prejudices and fixed ideas. The second raters and/or duds will get stubborn when pushed and fall back on stupid cliches like "he gives us our best chance to win" or some such rubbish, thereby revealing that they basically suck at leadership and management. There is really is no great secret Gnostic body of knowledge that only coaches are privy to - and even the good and great ones make big time errors. Anyone remember Dan Reeve's fixation on Tommy Maddox? In the case of the J-E-T-S Rex didn't want to use Tebow, period. He is stubborn and stupid, which pretty much explains the whole situation, which looks to me like a total full-on Cluster **** between ownership, GM, and Coach. None of these idiots seem to have talked to each other.

Now, as for Tebow, there has been a fair bit of echoing of the extremely shallow and silly analysis heard from ESPN hacks. Tebow can't throw? Nonsense. He can and at times he did throw a good ball, and a very good deep ball. Now, that said, he needed eons of time, his release is slow-to-glacial, his ability to improvise when his primary receiver isn't getting open is very poor, he is risk averse, and often indecisive. Those often killed our passing last year. I suspect its why he could be effective out of play action, and perhaps why he performed so well at the end of games - he started reacting and not trying to overthink everything.

All of these add up to a tough job for a coach. Is Tebow teachable? I dunno, I haven't tried. he did some really cool stuff in 2011, and I think he warrants a chance to learn to play the game properly. Coaches are, however, risk averse creatures themselves, especially the ones clinging to their jobs by their fingernails, and those would tend to be the stubborn and stupid ones. These guys sure don't want to risk their meal tickets and reputations trying to turn Tebow into a good NFL QB. A perfect circle. Of course, banking on a chump like Mark Sanchez is a good way to go unemployed too, so it remains a mystery why Rex Ryan didn't even try rolling the dice, unless you want to consider blind pig headed obstinacy.


PS. I am now even more convinced than ever that John Fox and Mike McCoy are geniuses for having cobbled together and operated a playoff offense, however weird, out of the parts available to them in 2011.

Good post, my only real disagreement is with the highlighted portion.

The problem was and still is will be that Tebow doesnt seem to improve during the week going into games. So by that standard its very hard for any HC to want to pull the trigger when he just doesnt have faith in what that player can do. Why they bothered to take Tebow i will never know, they never used him like i thought they would. But at the same time i cant really blame them when Tim did nothing to show them that he could be their guy in that capacity. Giving Tebow a chance while not showing it in practice is like Denver telling Oz that Adam Weber or any backup needs a chance just because they feel like it.

I dont know if Tim will ever get another chance but im positive that it wont happen unless he can prove it outside of gameday like other players. At some point he's going to have to show he can learn the playbook and the position at the pro level and then prove it too them before going in. He got a gift of a chance in 2011 but seems to have never expanded on it while in NY. Part of it is Rex's fault for being a dope but part if falls on Tebow for not proving to them he could be the guy. No coach is going to be THAT patient with him after 3 years in the league.