Thread: Star Wars: Episode VII - IX & Spinoffs Disscussion *SPOILERS INSIDE*

Shane, I know it wasn't a perfect movie. It also wasn't nearly as bad as you act like it is. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

There were two overarching themes in the movie. Heroes are just people and learning through failure. You've got Luke on this big pedestal because you wanted to see him be some badass jedi that just came in and single handedly took out the first order with his mystical powers and laser sword. He's a human being, he got arrogant, he thought that he could be a great teacher and instead he witnessed his own nephew who he trained turn dark and murder his other students. That's pretty freaking traumatizing. As a human being, his reaction to go into isolation and hide from his problems makes sense.

As for him dying, it makes a lot of sense too (I'm not overly fond over it personally, but I get it) He allowed himself to ascend in the force because he was finally at peace with himself and knew he had more to do. If you think his time in these movies is over, it is not. There is precedence for it. It is not like Obi-wan or yoda stopped showing up after they died.

As for you complaints about not letting Leia die in space...They didn't know Carrie Fischer would die until the entire movie was already shot. It's not as simple as just saying "nevermind, she won't save herself with the force, she'll just die" That would require reshoots, rewriting the story they had already setup because she's in many, many scenes after that point. And frankly I'm glad they didn't, she had some great moments later in the movie. I was laughing my ass off at "what are you looking at me for?" Because it was less princess Leia and more Carrie's personality bleeding through into the screen.


It's not a perfect movie, but once it got past the pacing issues and idiotic casino story to start the movie, it shined in the last half. This movie does not shit on Star Wars, there was no "desecration" it is very true to Star Wars, it just could have done with a more competent direction than Rain Johnson.

The boy at the end was meant to symbolize that while the resistance is down to a single ship full of people, the resistance and the force lives on in a new generation. Again, if you stop and think about it rather than just hate it because it's not what you wanted to see, it makes sense.


And on a final note...Milking the Sea cow was disturbing and pointless. We can agree on that one point.

Originally Posted by ShaneFalco

KILL THE PAST. YES. that seems the only thing Disney knows how to do.

Kill off characters that actually meant something. Turned Luke into a chump, and Ackbar went out like a bitch. Speaking of that.... HOW THE **** DOES LEIA FLOAT IN FROM being dead in SPACE? Stupidest shit ive seen ever. Whole theater was like "what the ****?"

Luke: trashed as a character, misused, wasted and and killed off just because no one was expecting it.

Leia: kept alive despite a great opportunity to send her off, just because no one was expecting it.

Snokes: Killed off just because no one was expecting it

See a theme here?

Every pilot was a chick ... They did their best to fill their social justice wars quota. Then portrayed Poe as some hot headed douche. And the purple haired commander was the ******* worse. When she went light speed into snokes ship. I cheered, not because it hit the bad guys ship, but because her terrible character was dead. Not one person from audience even cheered when the credits hit. People were literally laughing at that stupid rose chick almost dying.

The only redeemable parts of the film were chewy and the porgs, and Kylo and Rey fighting together. I was rooting for Kylo at the end to kill off the Social Justice Resistance.

What a mess. Prequels had more substance. I forgive you George Lucas. But you made a mistake selling to this company.

Pretty much my entire disdain for the movie stems from lack of direction, the dismissal of anything that came before to establish the new foundation, and the subsequent treatment of Luke. The whole premise of the Rebellion, the New Order, and Luke being a punk-bitch who pretty much wasted his life being a punk-bitch and then dying like a punk-bitch is the worst possible of storylines and does not make a damn bit of sense when thinking about how ROTJ ended. All this to get rid of the old and bring in the new....to sell merchandise. Not to tell a good story.

I didn't and don't care about Snoke. Didn't and don't care about the girl (whatever her name is) parents. Although their hamfisted treatment of this marysue being able to simply pick up a lightsaber and best trained force users (not to mention the most powerful one) without any years of training is lazy writing and bullshit.

I just don't understand how you can have so much money and a franchise that people want to work on and this is the best that they could come up with.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Shane, I know it wasn't a perfect movie. It also wasn't nearly as bad as you act like it is. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

It's subjective, there is no "truth". The movie is as bad to Shane as he feels like it is. Just like I'm wrong when I say Rap doesn't count as an art form, although I am right Rap is shit.

Originally Posted by Mike

Pretty much my entire disdain for the movie stems from lack of direction, the dismissal of anything that came before to establish the new foundation, and the subsequent treatment of Luke. The whole premise of the Rebellion, the New Order, and Luke being a punk-bitch who pretty much wasted his life being a punk-bitch and then dying like a punk-bitch is the worst possible of storylines and does not make a damn bit of sense when thinking about how ROTJ ended. All this to get rid of the old and bring in the new....to sell merchandise. Not to tell a good story.

I didn't and don't care about Snoke. Didn't and don't care about the girl (whatever her name is) parents. Although their hamfisted treatment of this marysue being able to simply pick up a lightsaber and best trained force users (not to mention the most powerful one) without any years of training is lazy writing and bullshit.

I just don't understand how you can have so much money and a franchise that people want to work on and this is the best that they could come up with.

Yes because Luke Skywalker had years and years and years of training?

So, one lesson with with Obiwan a blast helmet and a droid... Then maybe a week or two at best with Yoda and he's fighting his father in Cloud City. Then he basically doesn't get any additional training because Yoda dies and he's fighting his father on the death star...

But because it's a girl, she's a mary sue and it's not believable. Lazy writing and bullshit when it's Rey, but totally fine with it when it's Luke?

I dunno, I get some of the complaints, and you guys have the right to feel the way you feel you do. It just seems like some of the complaints are kind of silly. Like the one with Rey and learning too quickly...

In shane's case, it's no big shock he hated it, he basically went into the movie saying he was going to hate it, it's not surprising with the preconceived notion it was going to suck that he thought it sucked.

Too many people go into movies with preconceived notions of how it should be and then refuse to suspend any disbelief. If it doesn't go exactly the way they expected it, they find silly little things to lash out about.

There are for sure some things that were absolutely stupid about the movie. I won't deny that, but some of these complaints I dunno... But to each their own

I will agree with you on the direction Mike. Rain Johnson did a terrible job directing the first half of the movie. I feel like he pulled his crap together in the second half, but the movie was disjointed because of that.

Man, I haven't seen a fit like this since my then 5 year old girl didn't get candy at the store.

To be clear, I get some of the dislike. I came out of the movie genuinely not sure if I liked the movie, but sure that I didn't hate it. It took me awhile to process it before I was like "ya, ok, I liked this movie" I just guess I don't get the over the top rage against this movie that some fans are having...

I mean, go ahead, I'm not trying to force you to like it (bad pun sorry) But maybe I can help give you some new perspectives by explaining my take on the things you disliked. Some of the reactions are as joe suggested are like a 5 year old throwing a temper tantrum because things didn't go their way.

Originally Posted by Freyaka

Yes because Luke Skywalker had years and years and years of training?

So, one lesson with with Obiwan a blast helmet and a droid... Then maybe a week or two at best with Yoda and he's fighting his father in Cloud City. Then he basically doesn't get any additional training because Yoda dies and he's fighting his father on the death star...

But because it's a girl, she's a mary sue and it's not believable. Lazy writing and bullshit when it's Rey, but totally fine with it when it's Luke?

I mean if you want to pick out one thing that I found poor...then ok.

Luke was clumsy with the saber...used a blaster in the first movie (much like Finn in TFA). Second movie, I don't think they talk about the amount of time, but my feeling was at least a month. Either way, a bit of time with a lot of failure, then he got his ass handed to him by experienced force user who wasn't even trying to kill him. Third movie, after more training and honing his skill, wins a close battle against Vader (who had split loyalties), still gets roasted by Emperor.

So, yeah, totally the same thing....lol.

In the end it doesn't matter. To me, the movie is a tarnish on the SW legacy and trashes what we grew up with. To you, you enjoy it. Good for you, glad you enjoyed it. That's about where I will leave it.

Originally Posted by Mike

I mean if you want to pick out one thing that I found poor...then ok.

Luke was clumsy with the saber...used a blaster in the first movie (much like Finn in TFA). Second movie, I don't think they talk about the amount of time, but my feeling was at least a month. Either way, a bit of time with a lot of failure, then he got his ass handed to him by experienced force user who wasn't even trying to kill him. Third movie, after more training and honing his skill, wins a close battle against Vader (who had split loyalties), still gets roasted by Emperor.

So, yeah, totally the same thing....lol.

I think i've pretty much discussed in detail many of the things you and Shane think are poor.

Originally Posted by Mike

I mean if you want to pick out one thing that I found poor...then ok.

Luke was clumsy with the saber...used a blaster in the first movie (much like Finn in TFA). Second movie, I don't think they talk about the amount of time, but my feeling was at least a month. Either way, a bit of time with a lot of failure, then he got his ass handed to him by experienced force user who wasn't even trying to kill him. Third movie, after more training and honing his skill, wins a close battle against Vader (who had split loyalties), still gets roasted by Emperor.

So, yeah, totally the same thing....lol.

In the end it doesn't matter. To me, the movie is a tarnish on the SW legacy and trashes what we grew up with. To you, you enjoy it. Good for you, glad you enjoyed it. That's about where I will leave it.

Something about the Luke, Vader saber duel in ROTJ is why Luke actually won in the first place. Remember, Vader had to taunt Luke into fighting him by threatening to turn Leia. Luke taps the dark side in his blind rage and gains strength to finish off Vader and it’s not until he’s standing over him that he realizes and gets his emotions back in check so the Emperor can’t turn him.

Many of the saber fights display a lack of discipline and tapping the dark side (hate) by light side users. Obi Wan vs Maul after Qui Gon is killed. Obi Wan attack’s with rage and is winning but opens himself to the push by Maul that sends him over the ledge. Anakin vs Dooku both times Anakin sees Obi Wan defeated. Luke and Vader both times. Luke is enraged and uses that to fight above his ability. Rey and Kylo. Rey sees Finn struck down by Kylo and fights Kylo with rage and hatred.

I think this may explain some of that added skill and how some defeat others with less skill/training. The dark side is strong. Also remember that neither Kylo nor Vader (and can be argued Dooku) were actively trying to kill their opponent.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

Something about the Luke, Vader saber duel in ROTJ is why Luke actually won in the first place. Remember, Vader had to taunt Luke into fighting him by threatening to turn Leia. Luke taps the dark side in his blind rage and gains strength to finish off Vader and it’s not until he’s standing over him that he realizes and gets his emotions back in check so the Emperor can’t turn him.

Many of the saber fights display a lack of discipline and tapping the dark side (hate) by light side users. Obi Wan vs Maul after Qui Gon is killed. Obi Wan attack’s with rage and is winning but opens himself to the push by Maul that sends him over the ledge. Anakin vs Dooku both times Anakin sees Obi Wan defeated. Luke and Vader both times. Luke is enraged and uses that to fight above his ability. Rey and Kylo. Rey sees Finn struck down by Kylo and fights Kylo with rage and hatred.

I think this may explain some of that added skill and how some defeat others with less skill/training. The dark side is strong. Also remember that neither Kylo nor Vader (and can be argued Dooku) were actively trying to kill their opponent.

To be fair I did catch something on my second viewing of The Last Jedi in regards to Rey's natural grasp of the Force. Snoke mentions that the more powerful Kylo became, his equal in the Light side would rise. This is what The Force Awakens was essentially about, the Force "Awakening" within Rey even though she had no Jedi blood. Even in The Phantom Menace, Anakin was shown to be so powerful that without training he was able to drive a podracer and see things before they happen. The dogma of the Jedi and how to use a Lightsaber were the only real things he learned, but even without training he could probably slice up some fools.

In the Snoke throne room scene they show that Kylo is a very accomplished swordsman compared to Rey having been trained formally. He was taking on 2-3 guards at a time while Rey struggled in one on ones.

I bet the next movie will have a big time jump (5-10 years) in which Leia will have died and Rey gets some formal training with Ghost Luke or something and the Rebels/Resistance are more than a handful of folks on the Millennium Falcon.

Originally Posted by MasterShake

To be fair I did catch something on my second viewing of The Last Jedi in regards to Rey's natural grasp of the Force. Snoke mentions that the more powerful Kylo became, his equal in the Light side would rise. This is what The Force Awakens was essentially about, the Force "Awakening" within Rey even though she had no Jedi blood. Even in The Phantom Menace, Anakin was shown to be so powerful that without training he was able to drive a podracer and see things before they happen. The dogma of the Jedi and how to use a Lightsaber were the only real things he learned, but even without training he could probably slice up some fools.

In the Snoke throne room scene they show that Kylo is a very accomplished swordsman compared to Rey having been trained formally. He was taking on 2-3 guards at a time while Rey struggled in one on ones.

I bet the next movie will have a big time jump (5-10 years) in which Leia will have died and Rey gets some formal training with Ghost Luke or something and the Rebels/Resistance are more than a handful of folks on the Millennium Falcon.

I think that is the way it will have to go. TLJ picked up basically immediately following TFA, but the next movie cannot pick up immediately. It is going to take time for the rebels to rebuild to a point that they are ready to take back the galaxy.

I kinda hope that now that Luke’s saber is broken and that Rey seems good with a staff that she’ll bring back the double bladed saber ala Maul.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

I kinda hope that now that Luke’s saber is broken and that Rey seems good with a staff that she’ll bring back the double bladed saber ala Maul.

I think that her staff may have been foreshadowing of that happening.

i honestly wish i never saw this "film".

Star wars is dead.