Thread: Question about Manning's recovery

Originally Posted by http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94738

If you watch him closely, you can’t help but see that Peyton Manning is having difficulties with his throws. There are specific patterns that I have noticed watching and reviewing his play since the preseason. His passes to the right half of the field are, for the most part, weak and/or inaccurate. These observations have been consistent and predictable. Why predictable? If you followed my posts last year, you will remember that I explained that C7, the nerve involved in the disc problem that led to his surgeries, innervates the triceps muscle. This is the muscle which accounts for the extension of his elbow in the throwing motion. But what other muscle is innervated by C7?..........The major portion of the pectoralis major muscle. Why is this important? The pectoralis major muscle is one of the strongest muscles in the body. And it gives POWER to the throwing motion.

Go through the motion of pretending that you are throwing a football straight forward, while feeling your pectoralis. You will feel it contract as it strongly assists the upper arm moving forward and inward towards the chest. When you then throw across your chest to the left you will be able to obtain maximum force to the throw in that you receive maximum contribution from the pectoralis. When a throw is made to the right, the pectoralis contributes little to the power of the throw.

If you watched Manning last game, it was painfully obvious that any successful passes to the right were short and low. And in some of those, in order to compensate, he turned his whole body to his target so that it would be more equivalent to a straight ahead throw (using the assist of the pectoralis). All three of his interceptions came when he attempted intermediate passes to the right side of the field while facing the middle of the field. Those passes and others floated and/or were inaccurate. Remember, accuracy especially with longer passes require adequate power. Power or the lack thereof affects accuracy. The less power behind your throw, the less likely a longer throw will be delivered accurately and the more likely you will lose form and inappropriately overuse the core muscles in desperate attempt for additional forward power. This last game, Peyton’s greatest success was with throws across his body to the left side of the field as in the case of his sole TD pass.

[As an aside, C7 also innervates the latissimus dorsi muscle which can to a much lesser degree contribute to a forward pass.]

Keeping all of this in mind, a defense strategy that could serve Wade well would be to place maximum pass rush pressure to Peytons right and force him to the left of his back field. This way it would significantly lessen his chances of going to the right side with his passes and encourage him to focus mostly on the left side of the field. At the same time, Wade could concentrate his secondary’s attention to the left awaiting those passes. If Peyton chooses to still throw from his exaggerated left backfield position to the right side of the field, his throws would be that much weaker and more inaccurate, making them less likely to be completed and ripe for the pick. Forcing Peyton to pass to his right could be the Texans' path this Sunday to driving him to his Waterloo.

I saw this on Texanstalk and was curious if you guys have noticed this (or if anyone wants to go back and look at it). The guy who wrote it is an orthopedic surgeon in the Houston area and is remarkably accurate in his assessments of various people's injuries (including Andre Johnson, Foster, Domanik Davis/Williams all the way back to Tony Bosselli). I'm not trying to talk smack just thought it was something you guys might want to watch for. I don't have any of the Broncos games recorded and wasn't watching for this trend before now.

He does go on (later in the thread) to say that it is expected that by the end of the year Manning will have all of the strength back in his arm that he's going to get. Basically that 2 years removed from the surgery that he will have experienced as much regeneration as you will see.

Thoughts? (flame away if you must)

Mike

The three picks all looked similar to me - late over the middle throws somewhat to his right and they all seemed to hang in the air a bit longer than expected like Peyton's brain expected the ball to arrive sooner than Peyton's arm could produce. I'm not a nerve or muscle specialist and don't pretend to be but it did seem to me as if Manning's INTs went to places where he expected the ball to reach the receiver before the DB could get to them only to see the DB arrive in time and pick off the pass.

Another factor, of course, is how well those nerves and muscles respond to a hard hit or two. Officially, we'll hear that everything is fine but if Manning gets a good shot to the back or arm, it could take even more zip off his fastball.

For me, the problems in the last game had to do with some very poor reads by Manning. While his throws arent pretty i dont think that is the brunt of his problem.

Originally Posted by Northman

For me, the problems in the last game had to do with some very poor reads by Manning. While his throws arent pretty i dont think that is the brunt of his problem.

This. And as to the OP, it's no secret that his nerve damage and ensuing surgeries effected his arm strength. He's still Peyton Manning though. He'll be back to his normal Peyton Manning self before long.

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I am of the opinion that Manning's troubles are in adapting to a new scheme and time away from the game. I have seen him throw some great passes with zip on them. I would point to Alex Smith as to the importance for a QB to know and feel comfortable in an offensive system. Alex has never had a 2nd season in the same system until now. This season so far he is tearing it up for SF. Manning will be fine. If you really think we'll win the SB this year you will probably be dissappointed. I'm looking for next year and the year after when I believe we'll be real title contenders. And a lot of that will be because Manning will feel more comfortable in the offense.

All that said I'm not a nerve specialist. But if this was the case why did this article come out after his 1st bad game and not before? Or even in the off season? Or after his 1st game in which he performed excellent?

Originally Posted by gregbroncs

I am of the opinion that Manning's troubles are in adapting to a new scheme and time away from the game. I have seen him throw some great passes with zip on them. I would point to Alex Smith as to the importance for a QB to know and feel comfortable in an offensive system. Alex has never had a 2nd season in the same system until now. This season so far he is tearing it up for SF. Manning will be fine. If you really think we'll win the SB this year you will probably be dissappointed. I'm looking for next year and the year after when I believe we'll be real title contenders. And a lot of that will be because Manning will feel more comfortable in the offense.

All that said I'm not a nerve specialist. But if this was the case why did this article come out after his 1st bad game and not before? Or even in the off season? Or after his 1st game in which he performed excellent?

Well put

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Originally Posted by gregbroncs

I am of the opinion that Manning's troubles are in adapting to a new scheme and time away from the game. I have seen him throw some great passes with zip on them. I would point to Alex Smith as to the importance for a QB to know and feel comfortable in an offensive system. Alex has never had a 2nd season in the same system until now. This season so far he is tearing it up for SF. Manning will be fine. If you really think we'll win the SB this year you will probably be dissappointed. I'm looking for next year and the year after when I believe we'll be real title contenders. And a lot of that will be because Manning will feel more comfortable in the offense.

All that said I'm not a nerve specialist. But if this was the case why did this article come out after his 1st bad game and not before? Or even in the off season? Or after his 1st game in which he performed excellent?

nothing was said after week 1 because 1, they won and 2 Manning attempted only a single pass over 20 yards in the air in week 1, so there really wasn't much to look at

Originally Posted by catfish

nothing was said after week 1 because 1, they won and 2 Manning attempted only a single pass over 20 yards in the air in week 1, so there really wasn't much to look at

The article stated that it was predictable. Yet he did not predict it. He made his comment after a single bad quarter. If it was so predictable he should have been able to predict it before not after. The circumstances around the article are highly suspect. And any credibility it has was lost on me with him stating that it was predictable.

Originally Posted by catfish

nothing was said after week 1 because 1, they won and 2 Manning attempted only a single pass over 20 yards in the air in week 1, so there really wasn't much to look at

You honestly looking at those passes and think he's trying to fire a bullet, or that he can't throw the ball 20 yrds? Seriously? I mean, its pretty absurd.

I also find it funny when people point out passes down the right hashmark as being "throws to the right"... as if his shoulders and feet are any different from this throw than they are anywhere else on the field.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Originally Posted by catfish

nothing was said after week 1 because 1, they won and 2 Manning attempted only a single pass over 20 yards in the air in week 1, so there really wasn't much to look at

You honestly looking at those passes and think he's trying to fire a bullet, or that he can't throw the ball 20 yrds? Seriously? I mean, its pretty absurd.

I also find it funny when people point out passes down the right hashmark as being "throws to the right"... as if his shoulders and feet are any different from this throw than they are anywhere else on the field.

They are trying to find anything to write about. Heres another potential story.... " i noticed manning was slow breaking the huddle. I think his clapping is getting weaker and the players dont hear him say break"

Well, okay. Here's another potential story... How are the Broncos going to stop Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, J.J. Watt and Antonio Smith with the OL the Broncos have in front of Manning? Last year the same cast was third in the AFC in sacks despite learning a new defense.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Well, okay. Here's another potential story... How are the Broncos going to stop Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, J.J. Watt and Antonio Smith with the OL the Broncos have in front of Manning? Last year the same cast was third in the AFC in sacks despite learning a new defense.

Same way they blocked PItt and Atlanta

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Well, okay. Here's another potential story... How are the Broncos going to stop Connor Barwin, Brooks Reed, J.J. Watt and Antonio Smith with the OL the Broncos have in front of Manning? Last year the same cast was third in the AFC in sacks despite learning a new defense.

If they cant break out of the huddle properly they cant block the Texans defense.

Originally Posted by Army Bronco

If they cant break out of the huddle properly they cant block the Texans defense.

That was a great observation you made. I'm going to zoom in and keep an eye on this huddle breaking thing you caught onto.

Man, I'm nervous for the game. I can't BELIEVE Manning's not breaking out the of the huddle at the same speed. I hope that he continues to squeeze those springy things so that his grip and clapping improves. Otherwise, this could get ugly.

I hate idiots from Texas......look.....Manning is not different from any other QB.....set your foot and square the shoulders.....as far as his nerve......6000mg of Inosine shot into C7 does the trick.