Thread: Other Preseason 2012 Action

Orton was terrible, Tebow was a little less terrible.

Im not so sure why that is so hard to understand.

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

Orton was terrible, Tebow was a little less terrible.

Im not so sure why that is so hard to understand.

Only because of a few lucky wins.

Tebow was absolutely brutal to watch. The guy's passing skills are high school level.

Hardly High School level. His skills worjked out well in college, but this ain't college.

Tebow's lack of professional skills are offset by his desire to win, which in Orton's case is one of the failing factors on why Tebow is a better than Orton. When you are that bad at QB (both), I'll take the one that plays well when the game is on the line every time.

Originally Posted by MOtorboat

Only because of a few lucky wins.

Tebow was absolutely brutal to watch. The guy's passing skills are high school level.

True enough. Windows become much tighter in the NFL, which, as you know,
require not only better accuracy, but more precise timing and anticipation, all
of which have been his weaknesses so far. If one would look back at the 2011
season, one would be able to see that the offense deteriorated when Tebow
took over and the defense became much better during that period. As I have
already stated, Denver got most of its wins during that time through defense,
Prater, and luck.
.

Originally Posted by topscribe

True enough. Windows become much tighter in the NFL, which, as you know,
require not only better accuracy, but more precise timing and anticipation, all
of which have been his weaknesses so far. If one would look back at the 2011
season, one would be able to see that the offense deteriorated when Tebow
took over and the defense became much better during that period. As I have
already stated, Denver got most of its wins during that time through defense,
Prater, and luck.
.

Protecting the football, leading the lead in rushing, and actually making a play in crunch time had nothing to do with it...Just the Defense, Prater, and luck.

Originally Posted by vandammage13

Protecting the football, leading the lead in rushing, and actually making a play in crunch time had nothing to do with it...Just the Defense, Prater, and luck.

Protecting the football? Yeah, they protected the football all three downs
until they punted. Under Tebow, the Broncos went three-and-out in a league-
high 31% of their possessions. (Oops, they were second only to the Manning-
less Colts who were at 32%)

Leading the league in rushing? You glossed over their being dead last in passing.

Making a play in crunch time? Like D.J. stripping the ball as the other team was
running out the clock? Or Prater's 50+ yard FGs? How about playing football the
other 3½ quarters and not have to depend so much on defense, Prater, and
luck? This is what I expect a real QB such as Manning will do . . .
.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Protecting the football? Yeah, they protected the football all three downs
until they punted. Under Tebow, the Broncos went three-and-out in a league-
high 31% of their possessions. (Oops, they were second only to the Manning-
less Colts who were at 32%)

Leading the league in rushing? You glossed over their being dead last in passing.

Making a play in crunch time? Like D.J. stripping the ball as the other team was
running out the clock? Or Prater's 50+ yard FGs? How about playing football the
other 3½ quarters and not have to depend so much on defense, Prater, and
luck? This is what I expect a real QB such as Manning will do . . .
.

could you send me a link to where you got those three and out stats? I have been looking for that stat

Originally Posted by catfish

could you send me a link to where you got those three and out stats? I have been looking for that stat

Got it just today from here. Hope he's right.
.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Got it just today from here. Hope he's right.
.

ohh well, thanks anyway, best I can seem to find is drive success rate that shows % of drives that end in a firts down or a TD. I will keep looking

Originally Posted by topscribe

Protecting the football? Yeah, they protected the football all three downs
until they punted. Under Tebow, the Broncos went three-and-out in a league-
high 31% of their possessions. (Oops, they were second only to the Manning-
less Colts who were at 32%)

Leading the league in rushing? You glossed over their being dead last in passing.

Making a play in crunch time? Like D.J. stripping the ball as the other team was
running out the clock? Or Prater's 50+ yard FGs? How about playing football the
other 3½ quarters and not have to depend so much on defense, Prater, and
luck? This is what I expect a real QB such as Manning will do . . .
.

I didn't "gloss over" the pass ranking...You were discussing the causes of winning, so I don't think ranking poorly in the passing game would apply there.

Speaking of "glossing over," I like how you glossed over anything Tebow did in crunch time, only mentioning a good defensive play by DJ Williams and some good Prater kicks. (Pot, meet Kettle...)

As for the Prater kicks...If you had your way, the other QB you preferred last year probably never would have gotten Prater in position to make those kicks (at least there's a good body of evidence to suggest that).

Top, I know you don't like Tebow as a QB, but to imply that he had nothing to do with the winning is pretty asanine, IMO...That good defensive play by DJ means nothing if your QB doesn't do anything with the ball afterwards.

Originally Posted by vandammage13

I didn't "gloss over" the pass ranking...You were discussing the causes of winning, so I don't think ranking poorly in the passing game would apply there.

Speaking of "glossing over," I like how you glossed over anything Tebow did in crunch time, only mentioning a good defensive play by DJ Williams and some good Prater kicks. (Pot, meet Kettle...)

As for the Prater kicks...If you had your way, the other QB you preferred last year probably never would have gotten Prater in position to make those kicks.

Top, I know you don't like Tebow as a QB, but to imply that he had nothing to do with the winning is pretty asanine, IMO.

Vandy, there are a lot of people a whole lot smarter than you and I, who don't
like Tebow as a QB. But you can always take refuge in Skip Bayless.
.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Vandy, there are a lot of people a whole lot smarter than you and I who don't
like Tebow as a QB. But you can always take refuge in Skip Bayless.
.

There's a difference between not liking him as a QB and neglecting to give any credit at all where at least some is due.

Even I am smart enough to see that.

...Of course, I can also take refuge in the stances of HOF coaches such as Don Shula, Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, and Joe Gibbs, (and possible HOFer Tony Dungy) all of whom have said you can win with Tebow...I'll take their analysis over the likes of Merrill Hoge, Mel Kiper, Boomer Esiason, etc any day.

Originally Posted by vandammage13

There's a difference between not liking him as a QB and neglecting to give any credit at all where at least some is due.

Even I am smart enough to see that.

...Of course, I can also take refuge in the stances of HOF coaches such as Don Shula, Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, and Joe Gibbs, (and possible HOFer Tony Dungy) all of whom have said you can win with Tebow...I'll take their analysis over the likes of Merrill Hoge, Mel Kiper, Boomer Esiason, etc any day.

Some is due, Vandy. Some is due.
.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Some is due, Vandy. Some is due.
.

Ahhh...now that was refreshing...

The problem is this "crunch time" statement... to me. We were "always" in crunch time at the end of the game because our offense didn't do a damn thing for 55 minutes. When you don't do anything before a test, until test day, its crunch time to study because YOU put yourself in that spot. Not doing anything for 55 of 60 minutes, and then "pulling out" a lucky win isn't something I would say proves a QB is "crunch time" capable. More like desperate all the time.


(Tony Dungy is not a HoF coach other than first black coach to win a Super Bowl. His playoff record is LOSING, and had a losing playoff record while coaching the best passing QB of all time. How do you do that? Notice that both times Dungy left a team, that team went to the Super Bowl the first year he was gone?

Also, Joe Gibbs is the only one of those coaches to win a Super Bowl with sub-par QBs. Ditka did it, but had the greatest defense in NFL history. How many years did Shula coach without either Griese or Marino behind center? Parcells drafted Drew Bledsoe and had him throw 70+ times a game. Dungy, had Manning and only went to a single Super Bowl in 12 years. Its easy to "back the nice guy" when you are now talking in a booth and not having to put your money where you mouth is.