Thread: Mike Vick conditionally re-instated. Can participate immediately

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Cecil Lamey is talking with Scott and Al right now, and Cecil said the two teams he is hearing that are in the running for Vick are the Patriots, and Steelers, and Lamey said that he has also been told that right now, the Patriots are trying to firm up the deal.

if this is true then he will not be playing QB.. for either or team..

Originally Posted by Northman

Although im not the biggest stickler when it comes to who has to be of moral value than the next i do believe you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere. So going by your comments of once you've served time your forgiven and everything else doesnt matter i assume that if Vick had molested 48 kids you would be fine with him being a Denver Bronco. Just so as long as we won and made money off him right? Again, im not a goodie goodie but i do draw the line in certain circumstances and purposely torturing and killing animals is one of them. I rather have "some" morals than to disregard them alltogether i guess.

I think you certainly raised the stakes with your example. NO... we can't and won't forgive and forget everything. However, comparing a person that serves a 2 year sentence (when the average person wouldn't serve at all) for killing dogs to a guy that molested 48 kids and would have gotten life....isn't the same thing.

Posters above suggested the because he (vick) is a "felon" doesn't deserve forgiveness and/or any kind of second chance. To me, that's a disgusting attitude whether you apply it to Mike Vick or not. That post, in particular, showed me that there are just some that wish to completely shun any from society (with no rights) simply because they are a "felon." That kind of thinking is reprehensible, and I'm embarrassed that anyone (in this day and age) would still have that kind of close mindedness.

I admit that strayed from the original topic. One being zeroed in on Mike Vick and the other speaking in generalities. Some believe that the killing of the dogs deserves more than what he got, and can never be forgiven or forgotten. Thats fine. I believe that serving 2 years in prison is enough time, and don't believe we should simply "negate" his rights after he has served his sentenced time. I believe that if you keep doing that, you continue to punish those that have already been punished.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Cecil Lamey is talking with Scott and Al right now, and Cecil said the two teams he is hearing that are in the running for Vick are the Patriots, and Steelers, and Lamey said that he has also been told that right now, the Patriots are trying to firm up the deal.

Interesting. Two of the most elite teams in the NFL (as well as one of the classiest owners, Rooney) are looking to hire Mike Vick.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

if this is true then he will not be playing QB.. for either or team..

One of the things they said is that they could bring him on certain plays to run the Wildcat formation, and also use him at the WR position, etc

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Interesting. Two of the most elite teams in the NFL (as well as one of the classiest owners, Rooney) are looking to hire Mike Vick.

Yes two of the most elite teams; however, Brady is coming back after an early season ending injury last year, and want to sign Vick in case a backup is needed, as they lost Cassell, and possibly the Steelers want a backup just in case there is more to the charges that Ben is facing, where there is a possibility they could lose him???????

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

I think you certainly raised the stakes with your example. NO... we can't and won't forgive and forget everything. However, comparing a person that serves a 2 year sentence (when the average person wouldn't serve at all) for killing dogs to a guy that molested 48 kids and would have gotten life....isn't the same thing.

Posters above suggested the because he (vick) is a "felon" doesn't deserve forgiveness and/or any kind of second chance. To me, that's a disgusting attitude whether you apply it to Mike Vick or not. That post, in particular, showed me that there are just some that wish to completely shun any from society (with no rights) simply because they are a "felon." That kind of thinking is reprehensible, and I'm embarrassed that anyone (in this day and age) would still have that kind of close mindedness.

I admit that strayed from the original topic. One being zeroed in on Mike Vick and the other speaking in generalities. Some believe that the killing of the dogs deserves more than what he got, and can never be forgiven or forgotten. Thats fine. I believe that serving 2 years in prison is enough time, and don't believe we should simply "negate" his rights after he has served his sentenced time. I believe that if you keep doing that, you continue to punish those that have already been punished.

I guess that is where you and i will always disagree then. I cannot ever fathom how someone can actually sit there and consciously torture an animal. The prison time doesnt even really bother me, its the fact that there are people claiming that he deserves a second chance to make millions of dollars and reward him for it. As JR pointed out, i would much rather have Vick do something far more constructive and positive to regain any kind of respect or forgiveness than to allow him to play a game and act like nothing ever happened. Let Vick work with the average Joe and do something to better his image and set a better example to the young kids rather than say "its ok if you do this because once your out you can go back to your rich lifestyle". To me, this is where Vick's education should take over and he should be using his secondary skills to make a living since he took for granted and pissed away his first skill.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Yes two of the most elite teams; however, Brady is coming back after an early season ending injury last year, and want to sign Vick in case a backup is needed, as they lost Cassell, and possibly the Steelers want a backup just in case there is more to the charges that Ben is facing, where there is a possibility they could lose him???????

neither of these teams run go for it offenses they are management style QB of which vick has never seen able to do read defenses and throw to the open man with accuracy, 80% of the time..

I wouldnt be surprised if Pitt and NE are looking at Vick just to keep him away from division rivals. They dont need Vick but if a team like MIAMI (who started the wildcat craze) and a team like BALTIMORE could easily put him to use at WR than why not keep him out of harm's reach? San Diego did it too Denver not too long ago by snatching up Bennett to prevent Shanahan from getting him.

Originally Posted by Northman

I wouldnt be surprised if Pitt and NE are looking at Vick just to keep him away from division rivals. They dont need Vick but if a team like MIAMI (who started the wildcat craze) and a team like BALTIMORE could easily put him to use at WR than why not keep him out of harm's reach? San Diego did it too Denver not too long ago by snatching up Bennett to prevent Shanahan from getting him.

well that sure makes more sense than him at QB..

Originally Posted by Northman

I guess that is where you and i will always disagree then. I cannot ever fathom how someone can actually sit there and consciously torture an animal. The prison time doesnt even really bother me, its the fact that there are people claiming that he deserves a second chance to make millions of dollars and reward him for it. As JR pointed out, i would much rather have Vick do something far more constructive and positive to regain any kind of respect or forgiveness than to allow him to play a game and act like nothing ever happened. Let Vick work with the average Joe and do something to better his image and set a better example to the young kids rather than say "its ok if you do this because once your out you can go back to your rich lifestyle". To me, this is where Vick's education should take over and he should be using his secondary skills to make a living since he took advantage and pissed away his first skill.

So it comes down to the money. You are saying that because he is a felon, we should LIMIT his ability to make millions.

I've read in the papers about a lot of "average joes" that don't have much money that are worse people than Mike Vick. I don't see how forcing him to make less money is going to gain more respect?? So if a guy is a janitor, does the same crime as Mike did.. comes back and works at the same type of job .. its ok even though he "acted as if it never happened?" Or should he lower his income too?

How about THIS example. When you are watching football with your son, point out Mike Vick and explain how he COULD have been one of the greatest, but instead threw MILLIONS away and almost lost it all due to some really REALLY poor decisions. But, now he's getting his life back on track, and doing the best he can after having to serve two years in prison.

ALL of that is a positive message. (1) that you can throw away millions for making bad decisions. (2), you can spend years in prisons for making really bad decisions... (3) you can get your life back on track again if you put the effort forth. Instead of the "once you make a mistake, no one will forgive you, no one will want you, no one will want to have you around, no one will want you to vote or contribute in life... so just give up if you ever screw up." Its just a matter of perspective. Not everything has to be negative simply because a guy that made a mistake is on the field. That negative COULD be a strong positive if its simply looked upon that way.

What if Mike is able to take some of these new "millions" and open up youth centers?? What if he has learned (two years in prison will change a lot of perspective) and realizes that in order to make a difference, he needs to use that influence??? You don't know, and are willing to completely take out that possibility by eliminating any chance of retribution.

But just because he has the skill-set to make millions does not mean we should 'remove' that possibility from his life.... simply because of the amount of money he can make. That IS jealousy.

Originally Posted by Northman

I wouldnt be surprised if Pitt and NE are looking at Vick just to keep him away from division rivals. They dont need Vick but if a team like MIAMI (who started the wildcat craze) and a team like BALTIMORE could easily put him to use at WR than why not keep him out of harm's reach? San Diego did it too Denver not too long ago by snatching up Bennett to prevent Shanahan from getting him.

I think you see two of the strongest teams in the NFL pushing to make themselves even stronger. Seeing that you can't just sit, but can actually improve your teams in areas they don't have currently with an athlete that can provide something that most athletes just dont' have.. massive amounts of flexibility.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Yes two of the most elite teams; however, Brady is coming back after an early season ending injury last year, and want to sign Vick in case a backup is needed, as they lost Cassell, and possibly the Steelers want a backup just in case there is more to the charges that Ben is facing, where there is a possibility they could lose him???????

I dont' see either of these teams seriously using Vick as a QB full time. Sure I can see both teams (especially Pitt) throwing in times with the Wild Cat.. but I think the general consensus is taht Mike Vick provides SOOO much versatility..... he's the "slash" to the extreme. He's a better runner than Stewart ever was,and has a stronger arm. Vick wasn't the greatest passer, but he was certainly better than some around here are giving him credit for, and when used at/on a limited bases...well.. we even saw a lousy Leftwich last season do well in limted time.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

So it comes down to the money. You are saying that because he is a felon, we should LIMIT his ability to make millions.

I've read in the papers about a lot of "average joes" that don't have much money that are worse people than Mike Vick. I don't see how forcing him to make less money is going to gain more respect?? So if a guy is a janitor, does the same crime as Mike did.. comes back and works at the same type of job .. its ok even though he "acted as if it never happened?" Or should he lower his income too?

How about THIS example. When you are watching football with your son, point out Mike Vick and explain how he COULD have been one of the greatest, but instead threw MILLIONS away and almost lost it all due to some really REALLY poor decisions. But, now he's getting his life back on track, and doing the best he can after having to serve two years in prison.

ALL of that is a positive message. (1) that you can throw away millions for making bad decisions. (2), you can spend years in prisons for making really bad decisions... (3) you can get your life back on track again if you put the effort forth. Instead of the "once you make a mistake, no one will forgive you, no one will want you, no one will want to have you around, no one will want you to vote or contribute in life... so just give up if you ever screw up." Its just a matter of perspective. Not everything has to be negative simply because a guy that made a mistake is on the field. That negative COULD be a strong positive if its simply looked upon that way.

What if Mike is able to take some of these new "millions" and open up youth centers?? What if he has learned (two years in prison will change a lot of perspective) and realizes that in order to make a difference, he needs to use that influence??? You don't know, and are willing to completely take out that possibility by eliminating any chance of retribution.

But just because he has the skill-set to make millions does not mean we should 'remove' that possibility from his life.... simply because of the amount of money he can make. That IS jealousy.

But its really not. Vick can make millions doing anything he puts his mind too. But i think he should do it in another way other than football. Too me, thats the easy way out to award him millions for playing a game that he squandered the first go around. As for the average Joe who does the same thing i feel the same way. The only difference is one guy was poor or average when he created his crimes as opposed to another who had money when he did it. But both deserve the same criticism and punishment. Making Vick earn his money a different way isnt preventing from doing anything. Its making him understand and appreciate what it was he gave up with the choice he made. If you keep rewarding someone for making a mistake than they truly never learn from it. This is the tough lesson that Dante Stallworth is learning now. Now Dante will have to make a living a different way and try to redeem himself by doing something else which makes sense. The consequences are tough but necessary for people to learn from. I used to have a friend a few years ago that would continuely crash his car into a tree or whatever. His parents would keep buying him cars to replace it and even at one point got him a motorcycle. You can pretty much guess where this story is going to end. This guy's parents just kept feeding the machine and didnt allow him to learn from his mistakes. Rather than keep giving him cars to trash with the possibility of killing someone else they should of made him get a job, ride a bus to work, and earn the right to get himself another car so that he could understand the privilege and responsibility it takes to have one.

you aren't REWARDING them for their mistake? They didn't PAY Mike for his crime. They put him in PRISON for his crime ( and took away MILLIONS upon Millions from him). THats not rewarding. Thats my point.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

you aren't REWARDING them for their mistake? They didn't PAY Mike for his crime. They put him in PRISON for his crime ( and took away MILLIONS upon Millions from him). THats not rewarding. Thats my point.

You would be if you allowed him to come back and play in the NFL. IMO