Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18

Thread: Why the defensive personnel might be perfect

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The Corn
    Adopted Bronco:
    Charles Dimry
    Posts
    43,388
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Why the defensive personnel might be perfect

    After reading through Ravages' most recent post about the popularity of the 4-3 defense returning to the NFL, I decided to once again read my favorite series about football defense. Two years ago, the New York Times asked Jene Bramel, of www.footballguys.com, to rehash one of his more popular series on his blog, which delved into the origins of the schemes in defensive football. (Bramel, a doctor, is one of the brightest schematic football fans in the world, and this of course reminded me that I need to read his work more often. Off-topic tangent: It's similar to Rany Jazyerli, a baseball blogger, and ironically also a doctor, who primarily blogs about the Royals at www.ranyontheroyals.com, but was one of the founders of Baseball Prospectus. Both are two of the more intelligent reads in terms of their respective sports)

    Running across the third installment of the series made me think about why the current personnel on Denver's defense could be a great fit to the scheme that we saw employed last year. (Caveat 1: New defensive coordinator in Jack Del Rio, assuming he doesn't tinker too much with the scheme that Fox and Allen ran out there last year, which if he did could make this whole rant moot).

    (Which of course leads to Caveat 2: This is a pretty optimistic look at the defensive side of the ball)

    I'll start here: http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2...ont-continued/

    That's Bramel's blog at the New York Times' The Fifth Down blog. If you're in any way interested in how I came up with these observations in terms of schematics, that's a perfect read. Also read installment one about the UT position in a 4-3 under, but more on that in a minute.

    Initially, I was reading installment three and thinking about how perfect Von Miller and D.J. Williams fit the under scheme. Granted, that is mostly about the Tampa-2 (which for anyone not familiar is essentially a Cover-3 with the MLB serving as the deep-middle defender) and not necessarily the scheme that Fox and Del Rio presumably will employ most of the time. I see more of a traditional Cover-2 employed in terms of base coverage sets.

    But, why are Von Miller and D.J. Williams perfect for the 4-3 under?

    Miller's job is to lineup closer to the line of scrimmage, rush the passer, and take edge gap responsibilities away from Robert Ayers, who is more to set that edge for Miller by taking up blocks (Ayers did show some propensity in getting up field from that position later in the season when Haggan was forced to replace Miller because of the injury). Likewise, D.J. Williams' contributions, and possibly his success last year (I'd mark it as his best as a pro), can be attributed to the scheme, and this (from the article):

    1. The ‘under’ front protects the WLB well.

    As can be seen in the diagram above, if the nose tackle engages the center at all, the weakside backer is free to flow to the ball after ensuring that his gap (the weakside center-guard gap, or A gap) isn’t threatened. With the SLB and MLB dealing with potential blocks from the TE, FB and an OL, the WLB will be in position to make a lot of plays.

    2. Ballcarriers are “spilled” toward the WLB.

    The Dungy-and-Kiffin philosophy preaches a turn back or spilling concept in run support. That is, a defender taking on a block knows where his most likely help will be and turns or spills the ball carrier in that direction. Since the WLB is often clean in an under front (and in certain variations of the over front), he’s frequently the teammate to whom the running back gets sent.
    Williams' talents have always been best used in space - he's allowed to do that in this under-heavy scheme. It also allowed Allen and Fox to call more pass-blitzes from his position, which were disguised by his success in the role described above.

    That leads us to the UT position, which is why I believe Fox convinced Elway to take Derek Wolfe. I turn your attention to part one of the Bramel's series again, which describes the role Warren Sapp had in the Tampa scheme, as a UT lined up in a three-tech, outside shoulder of the guard. His primary responsibility was getting up field and attacking. Albeit in a different scheme (a 3-4) Wolfe was asked to do that exact thing for the University of Cincinnati, which he did quite well. He's good at getting up field off the ball, but not necessarily at reading and reacting.

    This is where the question mark comes in. Can the Broncos find that player at the other DT position to take up the blocks needed, and can Joe Mays fill the MLB role, especially in making plays against the run? If those two positions are even remotely effective, assuming Ty Warren gets the start at DT, then the defense could be extremely effective.

    Of course, I haven't even mentioned Dumervil, and he certainly could play a huge role on the opposite side, adding another weapon. But, if he can't hold that tackle in run situations, teams will exploit that, because Williams has never been good at shedding blocks, and then making a tackle. Ironically, neither aspect are Dumervil or Williams' specialty, raising another question mark. (Dumervil's position in the article is described as the Elephant Rusher, although I don't think he'll be moved around the field, as a true Elephant Rusher was in early musings of the Tampa-2 in Minnesota under Kiffin).

    Last, but certainly not least (and a recent topic around here) why Champ Bailey is so incredibly effective in this scheme at cornerback (and should not be moved to Safety).

    From the article:
    But it’s not just the weakside backer that gets more opportunity to make a difference in the Tampa-2. Like the Cover-2 zone cornerbacks that came before them, the corners in Tampa-2 schemes often get their jerseys dirtier than their counterparts in other schemes and routinely find themselves near the top of the league’s corners in tackles and big plays. The turn and spill concept also benefits the corner, as the corners are often the “help” when the front seven can’t make the tackle. The play-side corner gets the bulk of the extra business – often the strongside corner – but both corners may be the force player in run support as often as the safety. Also, because Tampa-2 corners play off the ball further than their traditional Cover-2 colleagues, they’re able to avoid blocks more easily on rushing plays and read and break on the ball more cleanly on underneath routes. Many of Barber’s big plays and high tackle counts are attributable to the nuances of the Tampa-2.
    Sound familiar? That IS Champ Bailey. But he is better than Ronde Barber. And he can cover one-on-one when asked.

    Sorry for the length, but I had a burst of inspiration reading that series. If, in any way, you enjoy the schematics of defensive football, that series is an absolute must.
    Tebow fan:


    Quote Originally Posted by Bullgator View Post
    And what else... and this upcoming year I will remind you with each win how wrong you cats are. You are gong to hate life You are all like 20 steven a smiths in here.

    You are wrong you have always been wrong, it was proven to you last year although you refuse to see... it will be proven year after year cuz there just aint nuttin you can do about it.. you are on the losing side... its inevitable.


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    15,613

    Default

    Great post.. and thanks for the articles!
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

  3. The Following 2 Users High Fived Ravage!!! For This Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Adopted Bronco:
    JD Walton
    Posts
    5,730

    Default

    Good post Mo. Counting on Joe Mays worries me, but since Del Rio is a great defensive mind that played the position I'll defer to his judgement on the matter. It almost looks as if they drafted Wolfe to take over Ayers spot. He's playing DE in some base packages and DT in passing formations. Sound familiar? I think the wildcard is Warren. If he can return to form and stay healthy, he can provide a pass rushing/pocket collapsing presence from the NT position. That would change the entire scope of the defense.

  5. The Following 2 Users High Fived Ziggy For This Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Adopted Bronco:
    Bob Howsam
    Posts
    23,000

    Default

    That was a lot to read but worth it.

  7. The Following User High Fived SeeingRed For This Post:


  8. #5

    Default

    Awesome post dude.

  9. The Following User High Fived Solution For This Post:


  10. Default

    I don't think Wolfe starts at DE. I think they'll only use him at DE in short yardage situations. I think Ayers will do just fine.

  11. The Following User High Fived Al Wilson 4 Mayor For This Post:


  12. #7

    Default

    Its exactly what we did under Coyer. Jack plays things dramatically different...
    Russlin jimmies since 1981

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    colorado
    Posts
    12,980

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheReverend View Post
    Its exactly what we did under Coyer. Jack plays things dramatically different...

    Coyer was alright but he could never adjust at halftime. Jack better be able to do that. Also coyers schemes were bad against good passing teams. Those were the times we got exposed. With our pressure guys and CB depth, I am sure jack can out do what larry did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Zambini View Post
    I was the proof reader for the RMN.

  14. The Following User High Fived underrated29 For This Post:


  15. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Posts
    5,243
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    thanks mo, very informative, however...
    when you use the phrase 'perfect' to discribe our defense, I still ahve to call into question our group of young, inexperienced safeties and our questionmarks up the middle especially at linebacker.
    sorry to rain on the parade, but I remain concerned.
    My Broncos, since 1960 , but I am happy to share.
    Go Broncos , JFE and PFM, win the FSB !

    SARCASM is the TRUTH in a bad Transvestite disguise.

  16. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Posts
    5,243
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    Coyer was alright but he could never adjust at halftime. Jack better be able to do that. Also coyers schemes were bad against good passing teams. Those were the times we got exposed. With our pressure guys and CB depth, I am sure jack can out do what larry did.
    bingo on the half time adjustments!
    My Broncos, since 1960 , but I am happy to share.
    Go Broncos , JFE and PFM, win the FSB !

    SARCASM is the TRUTH in a bad Transvestite disguise.

  17. The Following User High Fived Chef Zambini For This Post:


  18. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The Corn
    Adopted Bronco:
    Charles Dimry
    Posts
    43,388
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Zambini View Post
    thanks mo, very informative, however...
    when you use the phrase 'perfect' to discribe our defense, I still ahve to call into question our group of young, inexperienced safeties and our questionmarks up the middle especially at linebacker.
    sorry to rain on the parade, but I remain concerned.
    I know you want Polamalu, but there's only one Polamalu.

    I think Mike Adams fills the safety void just fine.
    Tebow fan:


    Quote Originally Posted by Bullgator View Post
    And what else... and this upcoming year I will remind you with each win how wrong you cats are. You are gong to hate life You are all like 20 steven a smiths in here.

    You are wrong you have always been wrong, it was proven to you last year although you refuse to see... it will be proven year after year cuz there just aint nuttin you can do about it.. you are on the losing side... its inevitable.

  19. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Posts
    5,243
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    i hope youre right, I hope all our young inexperienced safeties step-up !
    My Broncos, since 1960 , but I am happy to share.
    Go Broncos , JFE and PFM, win the FSB !

    SARCASM is the TRUTH in a bad Transvestite disguise.

  20. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    The Corn
    Adopted Bronco:
    Charles Dimry
    Posts
    43,388
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    Adams is hardly young, or inexperienced.
    Tebow fan:


    Quote Originally Posted by Bullgator View Post
    And what else... and this upcoming year I will remind you with each win how wrong you cats are. You are gong to hate life You are all like 20 steven a smiths in here.

    You are wrong you have always been wrong, it was proven to you last year although you refuse to see... it will be proven year after year cuz there just aint nuttin you can do about it.. you are on the losing side... its inevitable.

  21. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Posts
    5,243
    Blog Entries
    5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    Adams is hardly young, or inexperienced.
    I was refering to our own second year draftees, not adams.
    My Broncos, since 1960 , but I am happy to share.
    Go Broncos , JFE and PFM, win the FSB !

    SARCASM is the TRUTH in a bad Transvestite disguise.

  22. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Adopted Bronco:
    Willis Whatchu Talkin bout McGahee
    Posts
    2,239

    Default

    Great read Mo. I just don't see Del Rio employing the same style defense we saw last year. The big difference will be UT. He's already stated he sees Wolfe as a DE on early downs and DT in nickel situations. His track record in Jacksonville and Carolina tell me we'll see some big bodies in the middle similar to when the Broncos trotted out Traylor and Perry.

Go

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
status.broncosforums.com - BroncosForums status updates
dedicated servers
Partner with the USA Today Sports Media Group