Thread: Bowlen meets with AWOL Broncos receiver mar$$$hall

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

But is he going to be the lynch pin? or just another big receiver

Will he see a 100 passes this coming year? or just 50-60

Is he the randy moss of this O?.. or just average.. remember he did not get many TD's this past couple of years certainly not in the randy moss area..


I think he sees his status downgraded just like jay did.. playing in a very controlled offense and they did not like not potentially being the big guns anymore..


do we really need him all that much or will Jabbey fill his pass quota..

if you had 2 WR before and he got 100 passes with a lot of 4 receiver sets does anyone think he will get that same 100 passes?

we now have Moreno and hopefully a fully recovered Hillis.. they will be getting more and more passes because they will be check downs when marshal is double covered.

Hey folks he may be wanting out because he see his role in DEN as diminished.. and he wants a new contract THIS year and they re not going to budge on it..

If Marshall is not getting the ball because he is double covered, it means he is drawing double coverage, right? if Marshall isn't drawing the double coverage, who is? Royal? maybe, but he's not the physical beast that Marshall is and certainly hasn't earned the attention from DCs that Marshall has.

if this offense works the way it should, Marshall should find himself isolated against a corner or safety plenty of times. we'll see more than a couple times where he breaks one tackle and turns it into big yards or a score. Marshall's big frame and ability to YAC will open up the field for the rest of the weapons you mentioned simply because you can't leave him in 1 on 1 situations and expect a corner or safety to consitantly make the tackle. and no, "Jabbey" does not bring this same threat.

I believe Marshall would gladly take 60 catches and a playoff berth over 100 catches and an early ski season. pay the guy what he's earned and get him in learning the offense pronto.

In case you didn't realize we are in the worst recession since the great depression. I've noticed many of you spending Pat's money like it grows on trees. Well, trees are sustainable, these player's salaries, much like the housing market are not sustainable. Pat already spent Brandon's raise by paying off Shanny's contract.

Saying we should pay Brandon for what he's worth means your trying to sell me something like a house at the value it was 3 years ago, when the prices became unsustainable. Now you can get a house for 40% of what it was back then, so who's paying full value now? Only a fool.

So the team owners are trying to restructure the CBA by crying poor like they always do, only this time they are not crying wolf. They are not too big to fail. Careless checkbooks can doom them.

Jay, Brandon and Casey are separate cases but they all probably at least considered holding out. It seems our 3 pro bowl players were it it for the money, and the whole team last year looked they they weren't sweating the blowouts because they get paid, win lose or draw. You can say Jay wouldn't be here if Mcdoogie had his wish, it's true. You can't blame Casey for trying to cash in on his last season, this could be the last trip to the bank for him. We don't know what Brandon is asking for, but he's not going to get it. I'm about 90% sure of this. We need to make plans without him. Let's hope we can find some guys who play with heart and can get fired up for big games and these guys who were pushing the envelope for money will be distant memories. Everyone wants to get paid but walking away from 2+ mil will prove to be the dumbest thing ever.

Originally Posted by bcbronc

If Marshall is not getting the ball because he is double covered, it means he is drawing double coverage, right? if Marshall isn't drawing the double coverage, who is? Royal? maybe, but he's not the physical beast that Marshall is and certainly hasn't earned the attention from DCs that Marshall has.

if this offense works the way it should, Marshall should find himself isolated against a corner or safety plenty of times. we'll see more than a couple times where he breaks one tackle and turns it into big yards or a score. Marshall's big frame and ability to YAC will open up the field for the rest of the weapons you mentioned simply because you can't leave him in 1 on 1 situations and expect a corner or safety to consitantly make the tackle. and no, "Jabbey" does not bring this same threat.

I believe Marshall would gladly take 60 catches and a playoff berth over 100 catches and an early ski season. pay the guy what he's earned and get him in learning the offense pronto.

but you see in this offense it creates mismatches as well as confusion.. If the QB is dong his job he is finding that open man and not trying to force that pass to anyone that is covered..

now can Stokely who is a master and getting open teach royal to do the same.. Gabbey already understands it all so between him Stokely, Scheffler, graham, new kid WR, royal, Moreno, Hillis someone will be open.. do we really need Marshall as much as he needs us right now?

Because if he does not play for us he sets unless we get really great value for him.. as it stands right now he is a RFA with a #1 even tender on him after 2009 season, that means for the next two years IF we decide not to match his contract offer we get a #1 choice from that team.. If there is a CBA at worst he is a player we will hold on to him as a franchise player..

HE B screwed if we want him ..Xman is holding all the cards..

WR's future murky
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 06/13/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT


Brandon Marshall (Associated Press file photo)Wearing a dark T-shirt and dark athletic shorts, Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall walked into Dove Valley headquarters Friday afternoon for a private meeting with team owner Pat Bowlen.

Marshall walked out a little more than an hour later carrying packed boxes to his car before driving away from the players' parking lot without comment, leaving behind this dark possibility: Has he caught his last pass for the Broncos?

Anything must be considered possible in an offseason in which the Broncos have already said goodbye to star quarterback Jay Cutler. Only this time, don't blame new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels if Cutler's former favorite receiver follows him through the exit doors.

While rehabilitating from hip surgery, Marshall doesn't want to be treated by the Broncos' medical staff if the team won't give him a new contract. Marshall sent that message both through his absence from the start of the Broncos' mandatory minicamp Friday morning and presumably during his audience with Bowlen on Friday afternoon.
Bowlen could not be reached for comment. Marshall likely will be fined for each day he does not report to the three-day camp that ends Sunday.

"We'll do what the league rules allow us to do for a player that has missed a mandatory activity," McDaniels said. "The rest of that is really internal. I've spoken to him and his agent, and that's a decision that he's made."

The Broncos went through a similar ordeal earlier this offseason with Cutler. Cutler's dispute was not about money but with McDaniels. Soon after replacing Mike Shanahan as the Broncos' head coach, McDaniels considered a trade that would have made former New England quarterback Matt Cassel the new offensive leader in Denver.

Cutler was eventually traded, along with a fifth-round pick, to the Chicago Bears in exchange for quarterback Kyle Orton, two first-round picks and a third-round pick.

Marshall's beef is primarily about his contract. Because he wasn't selected until the fourth round in the 2006 draft, Marshall was essentially slotted into a contract that paid him a relatively modest $1.5 million in combined salary and signing bonus through his first three seasons.

Thanks to a Pro Bowl incentive in that contract, Marshall's fourth-year salary for 2009 did escalate to $2.198 million. However, Marshall believes he is getting paid fourth-round money for a player who has delivered the production of a top-10 overall draft pick. He has averaged 103 catches, 1,295 yards and 6 1/2 touchdowns the past two seasons.

Based on an NFL salary database compiled by USA Today last season, 58 receivers made more than $2.2 million last season.

Marshall also has cited a lack of trust in the team's medical care as a reason for not wanting to rehab at team headquarters. Before failing to report for the mandatory offseason practice session Friday, Marshall had skipped the previous three weeks of "voluntary" workouts because he wanted to rehab under the care of his personal physicians in Orlando, Fla.

"Of course, we'd love to have him here," said Chris Simms, who is competing with Orton for the Broncos' starting quarterback job. "He's very talented, and he's going to make our team better and he's a good guy. We love having him around. But at the same time, it's the NFL, it's a business. There's a lot of things that go into decisions like this, so you've got to respect his decision and we'll continue to work here."

The Broncos have not yet indicated a willingness to make a long-term investment in Marshall. The team might want to first see how he recovers from his hip surgery. Marshall also has been involved in numerous off-field legal issues — enough to where one more infraction could leave him vulnerable to a long-term suspension under the league's personal conduct policy.

Marshall is not expected to report today or Sunday, which would make training camp in late July the next step in his protest. A Broncos player has not held out from training camp since receiver Ashley Lelie in 2006. Lelie eventually was traded to San Francisco, a move that helped clear playing time for a rookie named Brandon Marshall.

"It's something we're going to handle and take care of it in-house," McDaniels said. "I've been through a number of these situations. Whether it does or doesn't get fixed, that's something that's going to play out in the future. But we're going to coach the guys that are here the best we can. When he's ready to go and we get him out here, we'll get him out here."

http://www.denverpost.com/ci_12581741?source=rss

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

AS I have understood it he has a playbook and supposedly is studying it.. and supposedly him and Josh were getting along..

but book learning is so much more different than actually running the routes watching film and going over things with your fellow players and coaches..

Now we all know he can't run routes and catch the ball.. but he should have been here all the time doing the rest of the stuff that his fellow WR's have been doing..

since this playbook is about confusing the defense with multiple crossing routes unless your actually seeing it and doing it your going to fall behind the others..

But Josh has also stated he will have so 40 odd sessions during TC to catch up.. but that also means the guys that have been here all the time will be some 30-40 sessions ahead of him also..

Now I have some odd thoughts to talk out ..

does anyone think that because he will not be the top gun in the offense since it is all about hitting the open man.. does anyone think he may be rebelling wanting more attention in the Offense..

Knowing that last year they doubled him alot and jay threw to him any way.. I think that he may see that the QB will now throw to the open man if he is doubled..

perhaps he has seen the playbook and is scared of it that he will not be able to "get it".. that perhaps he is not smart enough..

perhaps he thinks he will not be a TEAM player (he certainly has proven some of that with the hold out).

hey maybe it is only about money.. as I do not for one minute think the Broncos doctors are the real issue.. tuten maybe, with his "Strength and conditioning drills"


but the Broncos have millions of dollars invested in the players and I can not think of anyone that would not want to have them in prime condition to protect their investment.. I do not think the doctors are bad, because thy use some of the best in the country to do their consultations and surgery..

I believe that part of this is a smoke screen.. the comments about the doctors not seeing the issue in two separate MRI's just does not make sense to me.. and then to have a Bronco Doctor do the surgery.. and for that matter that was all under mike the old staff not Josh and the new staff.

sorry that just does not add up for me..

him taking three boxes out means that he is taking the playbook home to study or he came to get his stuff and not planing on coming back..

this IMHO does not bode well for marshall playing in DEN this year..

All interesting points, but BMarsh has been saying all the right things about the offense and all indications are that he really likes it.

I think this is more about the staff misdiagnosing his injury. I bet that is coming up in contract talks and is bothering him. He said himself that if it were the Superbowl a few weeks ago, he'd be playing in it. He can run now. I think the Broncos want to put some protection in the contract for injury and off field stuff (and rightfully so, IMO). I also think that Brandon feels "victimized" by his hip injury and the team's poor diagnosis last year. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he felt that he played through so much pain, that the team "owes" it to him to reward him without considering the injury risk OR off-field stuff since he laid it on the line for the team last year and played through everything. Too bad we didn't get rid of Greek and the rest of the training/medical staff. I think he has good reason to be upset, but I don't think he'll get very far with it... And, if we had got rid of the pathetic staff (you know, the ones that said guys like George Foster and Willie Middlebrooks were good to go and draft them early), we would have that to show BMarsh that there was less reason for him to be concerned.

a number of these situations, my ass..

Many people work hurt in life and get paid alot less than Marshall, too bad all those people who get missed diagnosis's can't get recompensated. I believe the BRONCOS don't owe Marshall anything because he went out there and did the job he is supposed to and signed a contract. The fella should have stayed out of trouble because then this situation would be a no-brainer and he'd have his new contract.

Marshall is so far behind the 8ball in terms of learning this offense that losing him now wouldn't really make much differnece IMO. Love for them to work it out, but, how long will it be before Brandon is up to speed?

The way I'm interpreting all these offseason moves, it's becoming painfully obvious that we will be a run first team again. Our receivers will play second fiddle to the run game. Hence, McDaniels keeping only Dennison & Turner from the previous staff.

Maybe Marshall sees this too and is forcing the tams hand on shipping him elsewhere toa more passing friendly scheme.

How many SB's has New England won since Moss got there??? The answer is a dunkin' donut...
Look, BMarsh has so much potential, and has realized quite a bit of it... for him to be asking for a large pay raise is one thing, but for Denver to be nuts enough to give him a large dollar multi-year pay hike when he has yet to show he can get through a season without the threat of a suspension is quite another...
I like the kid, I love what he brings to the game, and if you just looked at his success on the field, you'd think you HAVE to pay the man his due. But Brandon needs to SHOW that he's more than just words about being a changed man, and for an extended period of time. For him, a WHOLE YEAR probably seems like an eternity, and in his heart, he's saying never again to committing a suspend-able act... But Bowlen has seen this movie a few times, and is not convinced the ending will change just because the star said it would.
Brandon, play out your contract, (no, I wouldn't mind seeing somewhat of a raise), but knock off the holdout crap, be a team leader, and own up to what you signed for. I think you could end up being so much better than a TO knockoff. You're my adopted Bronco, after all.

Originally Posted by bcbronc

but Marshall is the lynch pin of this offense, at least going into this season, and should be paid accordingly imo.

Really? How'd they do game 1, last year?

I wouldn't want to get diagnosed by this medical staff either . See: Toviessi, Watts, Middlebrokos, Pryce and Wilson

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

But is he going to be the lynch pin? or just another big receiver

Will he see a 100 passes this coming year? or just 50-60

Is he the randy moss of this O?.. or just average.. remember he did not get many TD's this past couple of years certainly not in the randy moss area..


I think he sees his status downgraded just like jay did.. playing in a very controlled offense and they did not like not potentially being the big guns anymore..


do we really need him all that much or will Jabbey fill his pass quota..

if you had 2 WR before and he got 100 passes with a lot of 4 receiver sets does anyone think he will get that same 100 passes?

we now have Moreno and hopefully a fully recovered Hillis.. they will be getting more and more passes because they will be check downs when marshal is double covered.

Hey folks he may be wanting out because he see his role in DEN as diminished.. and he wants a new contract THIS year and they re not going to budge on it..

In NE last year the top 2 recvrs caught 111 and 69 passes.
In NE 2007 the top 2 recvrs caught 112 and 98 passes.

This is a pass heavy offense that McKid runs. Plenty of passes to go around.

Don't see what the problem is. Pay him what he's worth and put injury and off-field clause in there. Win-win situation for everybody. I'm so tiered of bad news this offseason.

Originally Posted by Bad Intentions

All interesting points, but BMarsh has been saying all the right things about the offense and all indications are that he really likes it.

I think this is more about the staff misdiagnosing his injury. I bet that is coming up in contract talks and is bothering him. He said himself that if it were the Superbowl a few weeks ago, he'd be playing in it. He can run now. I think the Broncos want to put some protection in the contract for injury and off field stuff (and rightfully so, IMO). I also think that Brandon feels "victimized" by his hip injury and the team's poor diagnosis last year. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he felt that he played through so much pain, that the team "owes" it to him to reward him without considering the injury risk OR off-field stuff since he laid it on the line for the team last year and played through everything. Too bad we didn't get rid of Greek and the rest of the training/medical staff. I think he has good reason to be upset, but I don't think he'll get very far with it... And, if we had got rid of the pathetic staff (you know, the ones that said guys like George Foster and Willie Middlebrooks were good to go and draft them early), we would have that to show BMarsh that there was less reason for him to be concerned.

Do you really think our staff had anything to do with foster and middlebroken. As mysterious as mike was in the past I doubt if any of them were brought in to eye ball.

In many cases our daft choices had NO idea we were even interested in them. When there named was called they were surprised.

Mike has always been known for reaching for guys he fell in love with. I believe in these cases that to be the fact. He raved about fosters FAST feet had never saw a big guy like that with fast feet like he had.

As for Watts again I think the one hand was known about or they were blind (scouts) and they were looking at his prduction numbers only. After all he broke many of Moss's records at Marshall he must be good right?

Mike was a risk taker in the DAFT and he simply got burned on day one alot. After all was he not the guy that found TD in the sixth? The asstermind that could do no wrong. A legend in his own mind.

Can't do clauses like that, and yes our staff has everything to do with diagnosing the injuries of players and reviewing their medical history. They do this extensively at Indianapolis. Every team. Physical and mental evaluations. Furthermore, they do this as they continue in the NFL. Obviously.