Thread: Clint Hurdle Fired

Originally Posted by drewloc

God help us all if the Rocks retain O'Dowd, he has been a major reason in this teams failures. I agree with GEM, if you are going to clean house, do it!

Is it O'Dowd, or is he just the owner's puppet? He is playing with their money, and I am sure he is told exactly how far he can, or can not go with it. I have absolutely no use for the Rockies owners.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

My bad, it was the Mets, not the Philly's. The point is still accurate. He was run from all three teams because owners thought he was a terrible manager. Now, he is a genius with four World Series Championships under his belt.

Was my point wrong?

"Idiot" is a subjective term. When he managed the three franchises before the Yankees, in 5 of his 11 full seasons he had a winning record, including one divisional title (Atlanta, 1982) and two second-place finishes (Atlanta, 1983 and St. Louis, 1991). If that's an idiot, at least 60% of major league managers wish they were that stupid.

So, if your point was that Joe Torre was a "terrible manager", yeah, you got it wrong. If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

And it should be noted that while people believe most players get more savvy as they age, somehow people never expect managers to do so. Perhaps Torre's failures with the Mets made him better when he was with the Braves and his failures with the Braves made him better when he was with the Yankees. And he's obviously done something right turning around the Dodgers. So maybe he isn't as stupid now as he was when he was managing the Mets back in the 1970s.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

"Idiot" is a subjective term. When he managed the three franchises before the Yankees, in 5 of his 11 full seasons he had a winning record, including one divisional title (Atlanta, 1982) and two second-place finishes (Atlanta, 1983 and St. Louis, 1991). If that's an idiot, at least 60% of major league managers wish they were that stupid.

So, if your point was that Joe Torre was a "terrible manager", yeah, you got it wrong. If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

And it should be noted that while people believe most players get more savvy as they age, somehow people never expect managers to do so. Perhaps Torre's failures with the Mets made him better when he was with the Braves and his failures with the Braves made him better when he was with the Yankees. And he's obviously done something right turning around the Dodgers. So maybe he isn't as stupid now as he was when he was managing the Mets back in the 1970s.

I guess we've got a Torre fan here..."idiot" was being a little sarcastic and hyperbolic, for dramatic effect.

Sorry it got you so hot and bothered.

The POINT, as I reiterated, which you failed to comment on, is that managers have very little affect on a team in baseball.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Is it O'Dowd, or is he just the owner's puppet? He is playing with their money, and I am sure he is told exactly how far he can, or can not go with it. I have absolutely no use for the Rockies owners.

I'm sure it's a combination of both, but that does not change my opinion of O'Dowd at all.

Originally Posted by drewloc

I'm sure it's a combination of both, but that does not change my opinion of O'Dowd at all.

He's probably not getting the dollars it takes to get it done in scouting.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

I guess we've got a Torre fan here..."idiot" was being a little sarcastic and hyperbolic, for dramatic effect.

Sorry it got you so hot and bothered.

The POINT, as I reiterated, which you failed to comment on, is that managers have very little affect on a team in baseball.

I DID comment on your point, which you even included in your reply:

If your point was that managers don't make more than a few games' difference in W-L records, I would probably agree.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I DID comment on your point, which you even included in your reply:

Again, you fail to comment on the actual point.

Go ahead and test my baseball knowledge. Do it...I look forward to it.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Again, you fail to comment on the actual point.

Go ahead and test my baseball knowledge. Do it...I look forward to it.

Well, let's see.

We discussed Babe Ruth vs. black pitchers and you cite female pitchers from the 1950s after Ruth was dead.

Then we discussed Joe Torre who you claim is an "idiot" who managed in Philadelphia.

I don't see why I should embarrass you any further by trying another baseball question. I think your baseball credentials are already established.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

Well, let's see.

We discussed Babe Ruth vs. black pitchers and you cite female pitchers from the 1950s after Ruth was dead.

Then we discussed Joe Torre who you claim is an "idiot" who managed in Philadelphia.

I don't see why I should embarrass you any further by trying another baseball question. I think your baseball credentials are already established.

Your reading comprehension sucks, as does your knowledge of baseball, apparently.

Two things that you apparently missed. Your statement was that good pitching didn't exist in the Negro Leagues. You were wrong, and that's OK. You point to one female pitcher to try and prove that I didn't know what i was talking about, while I cited plenty of black pitchers that would have overlapped with Babe Ruth. Argument fail.

I said "he was considered an idiot," and since I've heard some of the people I believe are the best historical baseball minds say that, then I'm going to take their word over yours. Plus, it wasn't even the point of the argument, which, AGAIN, you failed to catch. I'm sorry I forgot that it was the Mets and not the Phillies, but that was NEVER the point of the post. Good lord.

Shit, I even told you the statment was hyperbole and you continue to be an ******* about it.

MY reading comprehension sucks?

Good luck with those "English as a second language" courses. Hope they help.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

MY reading comprehension sucks?

Good luck with those "English as a second language" courses. Hope they help.

So, since I've completely turned your argument (or lack there of), in both situations, around, do you have a comment?

So, go ahead...attack my baseball knowledge, it at least makes my night entertaining.