Thread: Since I've Been Gone....

Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.

hey ziggy, good to have ya back. . . .

Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

No the true blessing is having you as a member of this board SuperChop.

I love your optimism. You seem like a great fan.

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.

Out standing post glad your back..

I have almost the same feelings about this change this year.. Except that I hope jay fall flat on his face this coming year and gives us an 8-15 round choice for next year..

I think this team will do OK this coming year learning the new schemes and getting to know each other and hopefully they will learn alot of Team manship from Dawkins and Davis..

The best TEAMS win and frankly we have had only one team since the HOF player left and that was in 2005.. It is to bad we ran into Bettis and friends on the way to the SB.

They played as a TEAM and beat us because the were better prepared than we were.. Plus they had emotion on their side giving Jerome his final home game..

Originally Posted by Superchop 7

Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

I realize you do not like Josh, Pat, Xman and almost everyone now on the team.. But every post I can remember seeing you make has been uber negative.. Almost spam, time to lighten up and figure out that the team is better off for all the changes that have been made..

jay and mike are gone time to move on..

Ziggy - great to see you back! Your posts are always smart and insightful, even when I think you're wrong! The football section near melted down without your steadying influence

Originally Posted by Superchop 7

Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

Nothing like getting some mid round rookies, who rarely ever make an impact along the dline in their first couple years, to come in and play "savior" to a defense. But then again you might be right. It happens with my roommates madden game all the time.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I realize you do not like Josh, Pat, Xman and almost everyone now on the team.. But every post I can remember seeing you make has been uber negative.. Almost spam, time to lighten up and figure out that the team is better off for all the changes that have been made..

jay and mike are gone time to move on..

I'm sure he just misses Cutler and Shanahan, along with his constant underachieving seasons and recent .500 records.

But who cares about winning when you have a Qb that can actually throw the deep ball. That's what matters!

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

Nothing like getting some mid round rookies, who rarely ever make an impact along the dline in their first couple years, to come in and play "savior" to a defense. But then again you might be right. It happens with my roommates madden game all the time.

so what's the answer for teams that don't currently have good D-lines?

1. do you say, "rookie DLs rarely make an impact, so we won't waste time drafting any-- we'll just continue to make do with a subpar D-line?"
2. do you bite the bullet, go ahead and draft them knowing that it's an investment for the future and they generally take time to develop?
3. bring in over-the-hill vets through trades and FA and hope for the best?
4. do you bring in a bunch of late round scrubs hoping against the odds that you'll catch lightning in a bottle?
5. go after high-priced free agents?
6. or just say, "screw it-- good D-lines are too hard to build, we'll just play with a shitty one, build the secondary and hope for the best". . . . ?


we tried all of those besides #5 with shanahan, and we're now going with #'s 4 + 6 with doogie. . . . we'll see how it works out, but i'm not holding my breath. . . . i personally would like to see us go back to #2 and do it the right way at some point-- and the longer we put it off, the longer it most likely is before we ever have any decent D-linemen. . . .

Originally Posted by Ziggy

Hello fellow Bronco fans. I see a lot of new faces (well, names at least) around here. Good to have fresh meat....er.....opinions on the forums. My how our Broncos have changed.

Shanahan is gone, McDaniels is in. Cutler is gone, Orton is in. Also gone are all of the 'me first' players that littered the field on Sundays during Bronco games. At my last count, the Broncos had signed 18 veteran free agents. What do these players have in common?

1. None are superstars in thier prime.
2. All of them seem to have a burning desire to win, and win now.
3. Most, if not all of them are intelligent players that play with both mind and heart.

At least 27 rookies will also be in uniform for the next minicamp. While giving up a substantial amount for the 10 that we drafted, the front office showed no fear in dealing picks to position themselves for the players that they wanted. Whether or not that works out remains to be seen, but I applaud the effort. I'd rather take an aggressive approach and get the BPA, than draft for need and waste picks like the Broncos have done for most of the past decade. It's nice to have the luxury of both drafting for need, and the BPA at the same time, but the draft rarely works out that way. Considering the fact that the FO went out and signed versatile veteran RB's, and were prepared to take a RBBC approach to the season was fine with me. After the Moreno pick at 12, it confirmed the fact in my mind that they are going to take the BPA in this, and upcoming drafts. The investments made with the draft picks were used on players that are smart, tough, talented, and seem to have admirable character.

The FO then went out and signed a bevy of undrafted free agents. 17, the last time I looked. Among these were players that filled needs, and some have had either character or injury issues throughout thier college careers. UFA's rarely make an impact on a team, so why not take some chances there? If they turn out to be the player, worker, and citizen that the Broncos think they can be, they're keepers. If not, they will be cut with little consequence against the salary cap, and no draft picks lost in the process.

Being a huge Shanahan supporter in the past, I was sad to see the coach go. Being a huge Bronco fan for decades, I'm excited about the changes that are taking place. I had mixed emotions about the Cutler trade at first, but if a player won't show enough respect and maturity to return calls from the owner, I say, "See ya! Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya." I wish Cutler luck with the Bears, and whatever other team he may play for in the future, but my focus is always on my team more than the individual players.

Although this team is heavily laden with young players and prospects, there is a mix of veteran leadership in there also. Dawkins and Davis may be argueably past thier prime, but they can show these kids how to practice, prepare, and work through adversity. The investment in players like these two go far beyond what they bring to the field on game days. Winning in the NFL is a culture. One that must be taught, formed, and committed to. The Broncos are attempting to do that very thing. Let's hope that the investments made by Pat Bowlen and company are wise ones.

Your optimism is nice, and we did get some good players, but Superchop7's point about the DL is very valid. We passed on quite a few DL players who projected well into the NFL and even into the 3-4 in favor of RB, CB, S, and TE.

And our draft wasn't exactly BPA either; we did burn a 1st rounder next year in order to take a CB in the 2nd round, and we made a deal with 2 of our 3rds and one of Pittsburgh's 4ths to move up to the 2nd round to pick up a TE. For those non-BPA moves, a lot of us would rather they took those risks with DL instead, specially when giving up a 1st rounder, considering DL was the weakest area of our team the last 2 seasons. So we were willing to burn picks to move up to get a CB and TE, yet we don't take a proportionate amount of risks in building up our DL. We leave it to chance with UDFAs and backup/average players from FA.

I remember posts here before the draft where a Giants fan was saying we were gonna pick up a TE, and he quite some negative reactions for it. Now all of a sudden, it's a great move?

If before the draft, someone here would say that we should take a CB over a DL player, do you think you all would say it was a great move? How about if someone suggested we burn next year's 1st rounder to pick up a CB in the 2nd round, would you all be saying "great move!"?

Let's be honest here. We were all thinking DL, some since last season's draft or earlier. Now, after 2 years of weak DL play, we're happy to take a CB and a blocking TE over DL players?

Your point about the veterans teaching the young players is a very good one; I thought that was the mistake with the extreme go-youth movement of the Chiefs with Herm. Those vets should make the younger players better.

About our defense last year, I don't doubt that they really wanted to win, and they played the best they could with all their effort. They just either weren't very good (or maybe they were average), or they weren't coached very well. Their attitude wasn't a problem ... their celebrating was annoying to some, but they did that to boost their intensity; they just consistently got beaten, and even the good ones got affected because of weak DL play.

If there is not enough talent on the DL to make a difference, all the effort won't amount to much. Here's hoping the Broncos get lucky with the non-risks they took with FAs and UDFAs.

Originally Posted by dogfish

so what's the answer for teams that don't currently have good D-lines?

1. do you say, "rookie DLs rarely make an impact, so we won't waste time drafting any-- we'll just continue to make do with a subpar D-line?"
2. do you bite the bullet, go ahead and draft them knowing that it's an investment for the future and they generally take time to develop?
3. bring in over-the-hill vets through trades and FA and hope for the best?
4. do you bring in a bunch of late round scrubs hoping against the odds that you'll catch lightning in a bottle?
5. go after high-priced free agents?
6. or just say, "screw it-- good D-lines are too hard to build, we'll just play with a shitty one, build the secondary and hope for the best". . . . ?


we tried all of those besides #5 with shanahan, and we're now going with #'s 4 + 6 with doogie. . . . we'll see how it works out, but i'm not holding my breath. . . . i personally would like to see us go back to #2 and do it the right way at some point-- and the longer we put it off, the longer it most likely is before we ever have any decent D-linemen. . . .

Great points!

The criticisms with the Shanahan regime was that they didn't invest enough on quality DL players, specially front 4, always taking the "now" route by acquiring FAs instead, and not investing heavily in the draft for high potential DL players. Because of that, we were always thin at those positions.

The year we did invest on mostly front 4 players (2007), they more or less flopped. That isn't a reason to give up on the approach, though.

The Steelers keep picking up DL players in their drafts, some drafts more than most depending on their need. It's not a coincidence that their defense has been consistently good, even when they lose players to FA.

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

I'm sure he just misses Cutler and Shanahan, along with his constant underachieving seasons and recent .500 records.

But who cares about winning when you have a Qb that can actually throw the deep ball. That's what matters!

and the deep ball is thrown how much in the NE scheme?

The rest of your post is dead on..

Originally Posted by omac

Your optimism is nice, and we did get some good players, but Superchop7's point about the DL is very valid. We passed on quite a few DL players who projected well into the NFL and even into the 3-4 in favor of RB, CB, S, and TE.

And our draft wasn't exactly BPA either; we did burn a 1st rounder next year in order to take a CB in the 2nd round, and we made a deal with 2 of our 3rds and one of Pittsburgh's 4ths to move up to the 2nd round to pick up a TE. For those non-BPA moves, a lot of us would rather they took those risks with DL instead, specially when giving up a 1st rounder, considering DL was the weakest area of our team the last 2 seasons. So we were willing to burn picks to move up to get a CB and TE, yet we don't take a proportionate amount of risks in building up our DL. We leave it to chance with UDFAs and backup/average players from FA.

I remember posts here before the draft where a Giants fan was saying we were gonna pick up a TE, and he quite some negative reactions for it. Now all of a sudden, it's a great move?

If before the draft, someone here would say that we should take a CB over a DL player, do you think you all would say it was a great move? How about if someone suggested we burn next year's 1st rounder to pick up a CB in the 2nd round, would you all be saying "great move!"?

Let's be honest here. We were all thinking DL, some since last season's draft or earlier. Now, after 2 years of weak DL play, we're happy to take a CB and a blocking TE over DL players?

Your point about the veterans teaching the young players is a very good one; I thought that was the mistake with the extreme go-youth movement of the Chiefs with Herm. Those vets should make the younger players better.

About our defense last year, I don't doubt that they really wanted to win, and they played the best they could with all their effort. They just either weren't very good (or maybe they were average), or they weren't coached very well. Their attitude wasn't a problem ... their celebrating was annoying to some, but they did that to boost their intensity; they just consistently got beaten, and even the good ones got affected because of weak DL play.

If there is not enough talent on the DL to make a difference, all the effort won't amount to much. Here's hoping the Broncos get lucky with the non-risks they took with FAs and UDFAs.

We had a couple pretty good performances from our stable of DL last year, Atlanta and the Jets were games the DL did very well. Kinda begs the question doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Superchop 7

Yeah, what they did for the front 7 was amazing.

We are truly blessed, thank you for your insight.

Thank you for your completely useless and futile attempt at sarcasm