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Thread: Who is the greatest baseball player of all-time?

  1. #16
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    John Elway
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    John Elway
    I laugh every time I watch the history of the Broncos DVD and they show George Brett on the sideline at a Broncos game and he says something to the effect of, "I'm glad he chose football."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post

    Bonds was on his way to either breaking that record or being one of the best players/hitters ever BEFORE he started taking steroids.



    There's a lot of speculation in all of this. Obviously, Babe Ruth and Henry Aaron hit over 700 home runs without the use of steroids (we think), so why is it FACT that Bonds couldn't have done that without steroids?
    Then Bonds is even worse, because he took roids when he already had the natural talent. So, besides being a greedy, moody dickwad who doesn't appreciate his fans, he is one of the dumbest athletes to ever walk the planet. And, regardless of his talent, by default, he is an *

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    My uncle, who passed away last year at age 97, used to tell great stories about Satchel Paige. I guess it was not uncommon way back then for pitchers to pitch everyday.

    http://www.satchelpaige.com/bio2.html

    It is estimated that Leroy "Satchel" Paige was born on July 7, 1906. The mere idea that his birthday is an estimate provides perfect evidence to the mystery that was Satchel Paige. In 1965, 60 years after Paige's supposed birthday, he took the mound for the last time, throwing three shutout innings for the Kansas City Athletics.

    Joe DiMaggio called Satchel Paige "the best and fastest pitcher I've ever faced". His pitching was amazing and his showboating was legendary. His career highlights span five decades. Pronounced the greatest pitcher in the history of the Negro Leagues, Paige compiled such feats as 64 consecutive scoreless innings, a stretch of 21 straight wins, and a 31-4 record in 1933. For 22 years, Paige mauled the competition in front of sellout crowds. Sure, he liked the attention, but to him, there was only one goal. That goal would be to pitch in the Major Leagues.

    In 1948, Paige's dream came true. The Cleveland Indians were in need of extra pitching for the pennant race. Legendary Bill Veeck tested Paige's accuracy before offering him a big league contract. As the story is told, Veeck placed a cigarette on the ground to be used as a home plate. Paige took aim at his virtually nonexistent target. He fired five fastballs, all but one sailing directly over the cigarette. Veeck was indeed pleased, and Paige helped the Indians win the pennant.

    In addition to Cleveland, Paige played for St. Louis and Kansas City. When his Major League career was completed, he compiled a modest 28-31 record with a 3.29 ERA. He also served as coach for the Atlanta Braves in 1968. What made Paige so memorable was his longevity in the game. The main reason his age was so difficult to track was his seemingly endless success. He rarely answered questions about his age, and when he did, he replied with something like: "Age is a question of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter."

    In 1971, Leroy "Satchel" Paige was given the ultimate honor, he was elected to join the very best in baseball history in the Hall of Fame.

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    Greatest baseball player of all time? Hank Aaron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncospsycho77 View Post
    Pete Rose.
    Pete Rose did enter my mind. Willie Mays is another.

    Some people have put Ty Cobb into that status, also.

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    Though He slay me, I will trust in Him . . . (Job 13:15)


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    There is also Babe Ruth - "The Bambino".

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Ever hear of Satchel Paige?
    Of course I have. I did not say there were NO great black pitchers then, only that there were very few. It doesn't change my point.
    I miss the old Mile High Stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHoof View Post
    Of course I have. I did not say there were NO great black pitchers then, only that there were very few. It doesn't change my point.
    Here's a few names for you to do some research on...

    William Bell
    Ray Brown, HOF
    William Byrd
    Francisco Coimbre
    Andrew Cooper, HOF
    Leon Day, HOF
    Martin Dihigo, HOF
    John Donaldson
    Wilmer Fields
    Bill Foster, HOF
    Rube Foster, HOF
    Bud Fowler
    Bill Gatewood
    Mamie Johnson
    Jose Mendez, HOF
    Don Newcombe
    Ted Radcliffe
    Dick Redding
    Bullet Rogan, HOF
    Hilton Smith, HOF
    George Stovey
    Joe Williams, HOF

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    You obviously didn't do any research yourself

    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Here's a few names for you to do some research on...

    William Bell
    Ray Brown, HOF - career overlapped with Ruth's for just five seasons.
    William Byrd - career overlapped with Ruth's just three seasons.
    Francisco Coimbre - didn't start playing until 1940, after Ruth retired.
    Andrew Cooper, HOF
    Leon Day, HOF - career overlapped with Ruth's just two seasons.
    Martin Dihigo, HOF - was an everyday player until 1935, Ruth's final year.
    John Donaldson - spotty career spent mostly barnstorming
    Wilmer Fields - didn't start playing until 1939, after Ruth retired.
    Bill Foster, HOF
    Rube Foster, HOF - phasing out his active career by 1914. He's before Ruth's time.
    Bud Fowler His career was 1877-1904. Before Ruth's time.
    Bill Gatewood - was a losing pitcher after 1912.
    Mamie Johnson -a WOMAN pitcher from the 1950s after Babe Ruth was DEAD!
    Jose Mendez, HOF - pitched in the Cuban Leagues and was then a manager in the Negro Leagues by the time Ruth played.
    Don Newcombe - didn't start until 1944, almost a decade after Ruth retired.
    Ted Radcliffe
    Dick Redding - Largely a manager in Ruth's time.
    Bullet Rogan, HOF
    Hilton Smith, HOF
    George Stovey - pitched from 1886-1896. Maybe he pitched to Ruth's fetus.
    Joe Williams, HOF
    Clearly, you googled something about Negro League pitchers and tried to pass yourself off as someone who knew some shit when you clearly don't. Most of these pitchers are not relevant to a discussion of Babe Ruth because they were either before or after his prime - some even after his DEATH. Given the spotty and inaccurate records or the Negro Leagues, simple things like W-L records and ERA are not very good indicators either.

    So, you brought up a small number of decent examples and a large number of bad guesses.

    Color me unimpressed.
    I miss the old Mile High Stadium.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeHoof View Post
    You obviously didn't do any research yourself



    Clearly, you googled something about Negro League pitchers and tried to pass yourself off as someone who knew some shit when you clearly don't. Most of these pitchers are not relevant to a discussion of Babe Ruth because they were either before or after his prime - some even after his DEATH. Given the spotty and inaccurate records or the Negro Leagues, simple things like W-L records and ERA are not very good indicators either.

    So, you brought up a small number of decent examples and a large number of bad guesses.

    Color me unimpressed.
    Actually, the simple assumption was made that quality pitchers weren't in the Negro Leagues, which is an absurd assumption. Does it make Ruth's accomplishment's any less, no...but to say that good pitching didn't exist in the Negro Leagues is just false.

    I was fully aware when I listed those players that many did not play during the era of Babe Ruth, but that was not the assumption made in the first place.

    You then referenced the Hall of Fame and how very few black pitchers are recognized, when nearly 1/3 of the Negro League Players in the Hall of Fame were pitchers. Quality pitching existed in those leagues, like it or not.

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    Likewise...a number of pitchers considered quality pitchers will not be remembered in 30 years, that doesn't mean they don't exist.

    And because records, and documentation rarely exist when it comes to the Negro Leagues, making the assumption that pitching sucked in the Negro Leagues is a vague assumption, at best.

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    I would have to choose someone from a newer era of Baseball...Back in the day they didn't have pitchers with consistent multiple types of pitches and high velocity..Baseball back then was very simple and hardnosed.. Dimaggio would have never hit 56 games in a row against Jake peavy, Roy Oswald, Johan santana, Nolan Ryan, Fernando valensuela, Schilling, Johnson and those types of modern day pitchers...Im sorry but anyone considered the greatest, would have to be in the modern era.



    Here's some fat to chew on...Vlad G, Adam Dunn, and Jim Thome never needed Roids to blast HR's...

    Ichiro, Texiera, Brian Giles also get some consideration from me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benetto View Post
    I would have to choose someone from a newer era of Baseball...Back in the day they didn't have pitchers with consistent multiple types of pitches and high velocity..Baseball back then was very simple and hardnosed.. Dimaggio would have never hit 56 games in a row against Jake peavy, Roy Oswald, Johan santana, Nolan Ryan, Fernando valensuela, Schilling, Johnson and those types of modern day pitchers...Im sorry but anyone considered the greatest, would have to be in the modern era.



    Here's some fat to chew on...Vlad G, Adam Dunn, and Jim Thome never needed Roids to blast HR's...

    Ichiro, Texiera, Brian Giles also get some consideration from me.
    Well, Aaron hit his home runs during the "dead ball era," so I would probably consider him the best to ever play.

    Guerrero, who is Dominican as is a number of steroid abusers, has 393 home runs. While impressive, it's not even over 400. His .322 career average is impressive, especially for a guy who just swings at everything.

    The best player I've ever seen is Bonds. I don't like the guy. I don't like that he used steroids. I don't WANT to defend him, but he is the best ball player (on the field) that I have watched.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Well, Aaron hit his home runs during the "dead ball era," so I would probably consider him the best to ever play.

    Guerrero, who is Dominican as is a number of steroid abusers, has 393 home runs. While impressive, it's not even over 400. His .322 career average is impressive, especially for a guy who just swings at everything.

    The best player I've ever seen is Bonds. I don't like the guy. I don't like that he used steroids. I don't WANT to defend him, but he is the best ball player (on the field) that I have watched.

    Even before his steroid abuse controversy Bonds hit 40 homers and stole 40 bases in the early 90's...That warrants him a consideration, no doubt.

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