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Thread: (Ex-QB) sues EA Sports over images

  1. #16
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    I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

    I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

    I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.
    The thing with 70-80 hour weeks is that it is anti-productive and unhealthy.
    Kelloggs showed that they could get better production by splitting their
    shifts from 3 40 hour a week shifts to 4 30 hour a week shifts. Within a year,
    they were making enough profit from the extra production they were getting
    from fresh employees to pay their employees the same amount of money for
    a 30 hour week as they were making in a 40 hour week.

    Japan, the home of the 70-80 hour work week actually has a word for "death by overwork". Is that what you want?
    Last edited by Thnikkaman; 05-10-2009 at 09:29 AM.
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  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    I don't think its uncommon to have salaried employees work more than 40 hours a week ANYWHERE. I own my own business, and work 70-80 hour weeks EVERY week. Thats just what you do.

    I think expecting to only work 40 hour weeks is ... well... a lifestyle that is doing the minimum you can and still gt by. Thats not an insult to anyone, but I honestly think thats how it is.
    One more thing to add. I completely skipped over the fact that you own your own business. I sincerely hope that you don't have to work 70-80 hours a week indefinitely. I commend you for taking part of such a risky endeavor.
    I got mind control while I'm here
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thnikkaman View Post
    The thing with 70-80 hour weeks is that it is anti-productive and unhealthy.
    Kelloggs showed that they could get better production by splitting their
    shifts from 3 40 hour a week shifts to 4 30 hour a week shifts. Within a year,
    they were making enough profit from the extra production they were getting
    from fresh employees to pay their employees the same amount of money for
    a 30 hour week as they were making in a 40 hour week.

    Japan, the home of the 70-80 hour work week actually has a word for "death by overwork". Is that what you want?
    But again, you are saying that these guys/girls are expected to work the 70-80 hour shifts for the entire year. They arent. There is nothing wrong with expecting well paid employees to work extra hours to get a job done. In fact, I would be VERY irritated with any employees that complain about putting in extra hours when a BIG project is to be finished, ESPECIALLY (in the EA example) we know that they get MONTHS between projects.

    I'm sorry. But I just don't think working a 70-80 hour week for a few weeks (month or tw0.. three) something to complain about. Hard work is how you get ahead. Hard work and long hours is how you get things done.

    Simply hiring additional staff only maginifies the communication problem that slows things down more often than speeds things up...especially when the minds that are doing the communicating are on the "creative" part of the project.

    But... thats just my perspective. Your perspective is that you would rather work where you are, 40 hours a week, and go home. NOTHING wrong with that. Most people in the country don't want to work more than 40 hours and feel thats working a LONG day.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    But again, you are saying that these guys/girls are expected to work the 70-80 hour shifts for the entire year. They arent. There is nothing wrong with expecting well paid employees to work extra hours to get a job done. In fact, I would be VERY irritated with any employees that complain about putting in extra hours when a BIG project is to be finished, ESPECIALLY (in the EA example) we know that they get MONTHS between projects.

    I'm sorry. But I just don't think working a 70-80 hour week for a few weeks (month or tw0.. three) something to complain about. Hard work is how you get ahead. Hard work and long hours is how you get things done.

    Simply hiring additional staff only maginifies the communication problem that slows things down more often than speeds things up...especially when the minds that are doing the communicating are on the "creative" part of the project.

    But... thats just my perspective. Your perspective is that you would rather work where you are, 40 hours a week, and go home. NOTHING wrong with that. Most people in the country don't want to work more than 40 hours and feel thats working a LONG day.
    I'm not saying that EA case is their occasional case. From what I understand
    from both people who I know have worked for EA, and blogs online is that the
    standard is you work 60 hours a week when your contract says you are
    getting paid for 40 hours a week. And that gets ramped up towards the end
    of the project.

    I understand that if you get behind on a project and need to work extra for
    a couple of weeks to get back on schedule or to meet a milestone/deadline.
    But when you are constantly working 60-80 hour weeks, that is not cool. I
    know for instance that coming up here in the next month or so, I will need to
    put in between 50-60 hours a week. And if that happens, my boss
    understands that he won't see me the week after we make our deadline. I
    don't get paid overtime because I am salary, and our company keeps track
    that the time that we put into our projects are between 85%-100% of our
    40 hours per week for 52 weeks a year. (I get 5 weeks off a year plus what
    ever sick leave I need). I love my job, and what I do. I understand when I
    need to work extra to make sure our contractors (the U.S. military) get what
    they paid for when they want it. And I will do my damnedest to make sure
    that I'm not the person that is keeping us from reaching our deadlines. In
    return, our company (Rockwell Collins) makes sure that we are sufficiently
    staffed to meet those deadlines instead of paying less people to work more
    hours than they should.

    I don't like companies that take advantage of its employees willingness to
    put in extra hours without compensation over and over again. I also don't
    like Unions that take advantage of the Companies they staff (but that is a
    whole 'nother rant).

    The case for people that don't like working 40 hours a week are probably not
    in jobs that they are happy with. It sucks but they should either suck it up ip
    or do something about it.
    I got mind control while I'm here
    You goin' hate me when I'm gone
    Ain't no blood clot and no fear
    I got hope inside of my bones

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  8. #21
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    http://www.igda.org/qol/whitepaper.php

    The 90-page "Quality of Life in the Game Industry: Challenges and Best Practices" white paper was prepared by the IGDA's Quality of Life Committee, representing a wide range of game development professions and companies.

    The white paper discusses the problems and consequences developers face when trying to maintain a career in the industry and the solutions for establishing a better work/life balance.

    The white paper is partly based on the results of the "Quality of Life Survey" commissioned by the IGDA in early 2004, which garnered nearly one thousand responses from developers. The survey examined developers' attitude toward work, their internal pressures (salary, long hours, job instability), external pressures (family and relationships), inadequate staffing and work organization problems. Some of the alarming findings from the survey include:

    34.3% of developers expect to leave the industry within 5 years, and 51.2% within 10 years.

    Only 3.4% said that their coworkers averaged 10 or more years of experience.
    Crunch time is omnipresent, during which respondents work 65 to 80 hours a week (35.2%). The average crunch work week exceeds 80 hours (13%). Overtime is often uncompensated (46.8%). 44% of developers claim they could use more people or special skills on their projects.

    Spouses are likely to respond that "You work too much..." (61.5%); "You are always stressed out." (43.5%); "You don't make enough money." (35.6%).
    Contrary to expectations, more people said that games were only one of many career options for them (34%) than said games were their only choice (32%).
    http://playthisthing.com/mothers-don...ame-developers

    Mike Capps, head of Epic, and a former member of the board of directors of the International Game Developers Association, during the IGDA Leadership Forum in late 08, spoke at a panel entitled Studio Heads on the Hot Seat, in which, among other things, he claimed that working 60+ hours was expected at Epic, that they purposefully hired people they anticipated would work those kinds of hours, that this had nothing to do with exploitation of talent by management but was instead a part of "corporate culture," and implied that the idea that people would work a mere 40 hours was kind of absurd.
    Now, of course, the idea that a studio head, which Capps is, would have such notions is highly plausible; but he was, at the time, a board member of the IGDA, an organization the ostensible purpose of which is to support game developers. Not, you know, to support management ##!@heads.

    Morever, the IGDA has for some years had a Quality of Life Committee, which strives to demonstrate that long hours are an unproductive use of employees, and that superior alternative to the exploitative conditions at many development studios exist. The simple fact (as demonstrated in its research, available at the link above) is that most game developers burn out within 5 years of entering the industry, because of the absurd hours (for, incidentally, lower pay than programmers, artists, producers, and Q/A people can command in other software and media ventures). (And for the youth reading this post, this is why you are an IDIOT to attend Digipen or Full Sail -- get a generalized CS or art degree, so you can get a job somewhere else when you get burned out on the industry. Do NOT get a degree that ties you to the medium for all time to come.)
    There are companies now that realize that you lose productivity after a few 60+ work weeks in a row, and are trying to re-model their businesses.

    But it's an industry standard, not one company deciding to screw their employees while all other companies have 40 hour hard-caps.

    Just FYI - EA is in the majority still, not the minority. But I definitely wish you the best of luck getting on with a good company in the minority, Thnikka. My friends in it find it highly rewarding, even if time-consuming.

    Hopefully you can get the reward and keep your time, too.

    ~G
    "Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
    -- James Dean


    My novels Mason's Order and its sequel Mason's Pledge are now available at Amazon in both paperback and kindle versions.

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  10. #22
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    And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

    EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

    It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

    He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

    ~G
    "Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
    -- James Dean


    My novels Mason's Order and its sequel Mason's Pledge are now available at Amazon in both paperback and kindle versions.

  11. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

    EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

    It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

    He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

    ~G
    "Successful people are willing to do what unsuccessful people are not." One of my favorite sayings.

    But if he had a family, I'm sure the family would absolutely love him being around for months between projects despite him being busy for months providing the income. Although I'm sure that time away from the family, and the family missing them... is bothersome as well. Just as it is for everyone that has to spend time away from the home.

    Like your article said.. "...the idea that people would work a mere 40 hours was kind of absurd."

    Personally.. I think a 40 hour work week is just bare minimum. Doing what you must 9-5, to get by. Nothing wrong with that, if thats what you want.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    And as for compensation, like I said, Dave gets paid a significant sum of money (high-5 figures at least), especially for having been a guy who came in straight from college, to diddle with sound for a video game, and takes 6-8 week vacations overseas every year.

    EA may run you into the ground while you're working, but you get time off to recover too.

    It's definitely not the job field or the employer for everyone - but it's neither singular in its approach to staffing and workload, nor remarkably outside the bounds in compensation.

    He certainly doesn't feel like he's being taken advantage of. If he had a family, he would probably feel differently, but most game designers leave the field or change to a less-frontlines crunch-time-necessary job within the field once they start having kids.

    ~G
    I'm not saying that if I was in a different situation, I wouldn't jump at
    the chance to work for EA. In my free time, if I'm not working on my
    golf game, or giving my kids daddy time, I'm working on my own side projects.

    My current dream jobs are to work for one of the following companies:

    Pixar
    Dreamworks
    Google
    Blizzard
    Myself

    I realize that some of these jobs would require some long hours,
    but when you are doing what you love, its hardly work.
    I got mind control while I'm here
    You goin' hate me when I'm gone
    Ain't no blood clot and no fear
    I got hope inside of my bones

  13. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thnikkaman View Post
    I realize that some of these jobs would require some long hours,
    but when you are doing what you love, its hardly work.
    another one of my favorite sayings...

    "If you are doing something you love, you never work a day in your life."
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

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    Well that was all interesting. lol. Any news on the legal stances?

    FWIW... I've worked 70 hour weeks as a manager when my company was busy... and worked hard... and was glad to be done with it when it was over... I've also worked months of 100 hour work weeks because of a messed up situation. I don't really count that though because it was laidback for large portions of it.

    I don't know. I think if I had the knowledge and opportunity to work a cool VG project, and I were single... I'd probably jump at it. The nice thing would be that 40 hour weeks would feel practically like a vacation anyway... so the time and money to really go somewhere would be really amazing.
    To all the armed forces... present, past, and future.
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