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Thread: 10 Questions about rookie salary cap

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    Default 10 Questions about rookie salary cap

    Seems that the installation of a rookie salary cap is important to a lot of people around here. The commissioner has expressed a want for such a rookie "limit" as well.

    I don't think the PA is going to simply agree that the past players are worth more and simply 'get more' than future draft picks. I think they will want some kind of guarantees that the 1st overall pick will still get his 'due' money if certain achievements are reached. Thus, in a sense, making them 'earn' that 'first overall' bonus money. But no way do they simply say "you don't get it" to the picks of the future.

    So I have some questions as to how that will work, and would like to hear some of your thoughts on how you see it happening/working.
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    1) I know we don't know the exact numbers as to what a rookie draft choice will receive, but do you see it being limited by the contract, the length, or the signing bonus?

    2) Lets say player "A" is the first overall pick. He gets "x" amount of money his rookie season. Now, what happens his sophomore season? Was he just "limited" on the amount of money he could make his rookie year, or is he limited on the amount of money he can make after that??

    3) If its just their rookie season, then how much of a raise do they get their sophomore season?

    4) If we are limiting salaries, when can that player renegotiate?? Since they aren't making as much money from the start, do we then lessen the length of their rookie contracts?? No more 6 year deals for that 1st over-all pick, right? I mean who would sign a long term deal if they are already being told they are limited in what they can get?

    5) If we limit the amount of their rookie contracts, either by bonus or by salary.... what kind of 'achievements' must they hit before they get their 'earned' raises? Is it playing time? Do they have to start for so many games their rookie season in order to get a 'raise' that would them give them the money they WOULD have made being a high draft choice?? Is it making pro-bowls, or is it purely going to be 'productive' based...by rushing yards, receiving yards and/or throwing yards??

    6) If the players must reach certain incentives in order to get their raises, wouldn't it be an incentive for the owner/GM to not play the rookies as much??

    7) If the player doesn't reach the agreed upon incentives... what happens to them? Do they go FA? I mean, if a player feels he was held back so as to NOT reach certain incentives, doesn't he have a legitimate complaint? Veteran players have complained about this for years, I think if rookie salaries are low and can 'remain' low by simply limiting their playing time, I think that's a legitimate concern.

    8) If the signing bonuses are the only things that's being limited, do we then increase the money they make in salaries, or do we put MORE incentive laden deals in their contracts over the term of their rookie contract in order to 'make up' the difference that wasn't paid upfront? If that's the case, the contracts would be considered "likely to be reached" or "unlikely to be reached" as far as salary cap hit. Would it really save a team salary cap space if their incentives are 'likely to be reached?' If not, then why would the PA agree to have rookies not only get less money, but then agree that the way they get that money is through incentives that are 'unlikely to be reached?'

    9) If a player isn't paid as much in bonus money, and the contracts aren't as long because of it...what happens to the players that DO make their incentives?
    ...........a) Does the team get to put a 'restricted' tag on a player that reaches his incentives? So then the owners get to limit his rookie contract, but then get to limit his contract after that by putting a 'restricted' tag on the player?

    10) If we are paying the rookies less money up front, we know that their rookie contracts are going to be shorter. Owners can no longer justify a 6 year deal because of the large bonus paid. Does this mean we'll see an increase in FA's available 3 years down the road?

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    not one response? I was hoping someone out there could fill me in as to how a rookie salary cap is going to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    not one response? I was hoping someone out there could fill me in as to how a rookie salary cap is going to work.
    Since they haven't even begun the negotiations yet I don't think that anyone can fill you in. Anyone who tries is just blowing smoke up your skirt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fan in Exile View Post
    Since they haven't even begun the negotiations yet I don't think that anyone can fill you in. Anyone who tries is just blowing smoke up your skirt.
    well.. yeah... of course. I was just wanting to see some thoughts or insights as to how people would THINK it might work.

    So many here have seemed to state that its such a 'done deal' that it will be done.. and have tried to make it sound like its such a simple deal.

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    The "market" may already be trying to take care of this itself. This year we see most every team admitting that they'd like to trade out of that #1/top 5/top 10 spots because the value of the players isn't worth the cost of their contracts.

    That translates to lower demand for those top ten players. Maybe not immediately, but at some point down the road a continuing depression in demand for those spots will translate to lower contracts and/or more incentive based contracts for those top tier players.

    Of course, who knows how an uncapped year will affect all of this. Good questions Ravage.

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    ravage good post.

    my brother and i were talking about this yesterday. rookies nowdays get paid way too much and end up hurting alot of franchises if they bust. i think a cap is the smartest thing and i really dont think rookies deserve to make more than veterans right off the get go like that. stafford just signed a contract near 80 mill with 41 mill guaranteed? are you kidding me? thats more than champ and is a draft record for someone unproven.

    i wouldnt know where to start in answering some of your questions but i think the cap would be based on each position. for instance a wr, db or rb ect. would take the average nfl veteran salary and use that as a guide to sign these players. thats average, not haynesworth money. if stafford bust the the lions are in a world of trouble for 5 years and stafford is 41 million richer straight out of college to do nothing. doesnt seem fair at all.

    i bet the front office wishes jarvis moss wasnt such a cap liability right now. i think the main reason their trying to shop him is not just that he doesnt fit the 3-4 but his salary is too high to not perform on the field.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DenBronx View Post
    ravage good post.

    my brother and i were talking about this yesterday. rookies nowdays get paid way too much and end up hurting alot of franchises if they bust. i think a cap is the smartest thing and i really dont think rookies deserve to make more than veterans right off the get go like that. stafford just signed a contract near 80 mill with 41 mill guaranteed? are you kidding me? thats more than champ and is a draft record for someone unproven.

    i wouldnt know where to start in answering some of your questions but i think the cap would be based on each position. for instance a wr, db or rb ect. would take the average nfl veteran salary and use that as a guide to sign these players. thats average, not haynesworth money. if stafford bust the the lions are in a world of trouble for 5 years and stafford is 41 million richer straight out of college to do nothing. doesnt seem fair at all.

    i bet the front office wishes jarvis moss wasnt such a cap liability right now. i think the main reason their trying to shop him is not just that he doesnt fit the 3-4 but his salary is too high to not perform on the field.
    Absolutely... every year the newest 1st over all pick makes a record. Last year its was over 40 million. That 78 will never be reached, if it does, the Lions absolutely made the right pick.

    But at the same time.... if those picks were REALLY a huge deal to the owners, we wouldn't see them. I don't think that money is as big a deal as they have stated in the last year...not because of the economy (or at least not ONLY)..but because of the NFLPA negotiations. There isn't a topic that gets the fans on their side (owners) faster than talking about the 'amount of money' the rookies get. EVERY joe-shmoe can relate to how much money THEY are getting, and we aren't. Thats an EASY EASY point to bring up if you want the average guy on your side.

    But its been this big for a LONG LONG time, and its just now becoming an 'issue'..... some will try to tell you its the 'economy'.... I don't think its a coincidence that the topic comes to peak during this negotiations.

    I've just come up with those questions from the top of my head, without even putting much thought into it, and not really digging into MUCH other problems that surround such a rookie cap.

    Lets rmember....the NFLPA isn't simply going to allow the owners to simply keep more profits by paying the rookies less. The owners would LOVE to pay rookies less money. But we've seen a lot of teams over the past 5 years have a LOT of cap space. Last off-season, there was over 400 million in available cap space that was NOT being given to veteran players. So people think the money is just going to be given to the vets..... its not.

    Some want to say that because of the 'minimum' salary cap, that money has to be spent somewhere, and the vets will get more money. Most probably, the mid-range players will get more money.

    But either way.... the NFLPA isn't simply going to allow ALL the money from the rookie draft choices to be taken away. So if you cap them, then you have to expect for that money to be available TO those players, somehow, someway. Thus how it causes so many problems.

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    That being said... I HONESTLY.. don't think there will be a rookie cap implemented. I think it causes too many problems, and I don't think the NFLPA is concerned about it.

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    Yet the contract also States that IIRC 60% of the revenue has to be given to the players..

    If they do not have to spend it on Rookies the it goes to veterans..

    I find it ludicrous that top choices get huge bonuses just because they are taken early..

    I have always been a firm believer that all contracts new and VET have a base salary and then lots of incentive bonuses..

    IIRC The only reason signing bonuses came into play as it was a loop hole that someone forgot to plug when they signed the the contract that allowed FA to start with.. Someone found it and the owners have been screwed since.. Once that genie came out of the bottle there was NO way for them to get it back in..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    That being said... I HONESTLY.. don't think there will be a rookie cap implemented. I think it causes too many problems, and I don't think the NFLPA is concerned about it.
    since the NFLPA is veteran oriented it will be changed the vets are pissed that Stafford and others will be getting a few hundred mil that could have been theirs..

    They will get something else in return but the rookie cap will happen in some manner because it make sense to everyone BUT rookies..

    the owners really want this..

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    Rav, here is the NBA's slotting system pay scale:

    http://www.nbpa.com/cba_exhibits/exhibitB.php

    They have two year contracts, and two-year team options (I think those are team options) for first-round only picks.

    The NFL might have to go two rounds of slotting, but then everything would fall in place. I think its absolutely necessary. Stafford just got the most guaranteed money of any player in the history of the NFL, and he hasn't even played a down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Rav, here is the NBA's slotting system pay scale:

    http://www.nbpa.com/cba_exhibits/exhibitB.php

    They have two year contracts, and two-year team options (I think those are team options) for first-round only picks.

    The NFL might have to go two rounds of slotting, but then everything would fall in place. I think its absolutely necessary. Stafford just got the most guaranteed money of any player in the history of the NFL, and he hasn't even played a down.
    You mean the same NBA that has fallen off the earth with popularity in the USA? That may not have to do with the pay-scale or rookie slotting...but its MUCH easier with the NBA when you only carry 10? people on your roster to begin with? Maybe ONE-two rookies makes the team, if 2??

    I don't think that translates to the NFL. But it would be interested to see. Again.... the NFLPA, as I heard someone just quote their leader (a former vet of the game)... "Its just not our problem..." Meaning that money isn't theirs, its the owners. Don't think that the veteran players are all just going to VOTE yes... when the players will have to GIVE something for that to happen. Nothing comes for free. The NFLPA isn't simply going to say "yeah, pay them less"... and not have something else removed from the shelf. Won't happen that way.

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    did you guys just hear the interview with the players association president while talking with Goodell, talking with Eisen on NFL Network?? He said that as it is right now... less than 4% of the money is dedicated to the rookies, so there is already a cap. He said, flat out, that as it is right now they (the PA) are NOT interested in changing. He said that the rookie cap is just one small topic of so many that need to be discussed.

    Although said that they are interested in talking about increasing the number of regular season games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    did you guys just hear the interview with the players association president while talking with Goodell, talking with Eisen on NFL Network?? He said that as it is right now... less than 4% of the money is dedicated to the rookies, so there is already a cap. He said, flat out, that as it is right now they (the PA) are NOT interested in changing. He said that the rookie cap is just one small topic of so many that need to be discussed.

    Although said that they are interested in talking about increasing the number of regular season games.
    yeah i saw it but i just dont get how there is a cap already in place. 3.5% must go to the top 25 picks in the first round then if thats the case. i know there is a huge drop off once you get into the 2nd + rounds.

    they seemed more interested in lenghtening the season and getting a new cba deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    You mean the same NBA that has fallen off the earth with popularity in the USA? That may not have to do with the pay-scale or rookie slotting...but its MUCH easier with the NBA when you only carry 10? people on your roster to begin with? Maybe ONE-two rookies makes the team, if 2??

    I don't think that translates to the NFL. But it would be interested to see. Again.... the NFLPA, as I heard someone just quote their leader (a former vet of the game)... "Its just not our problem..." Meaning that money isn't theirs, its the owners. Don't think that the veteran players are all just going to VOTE yes... when the players will have to GIVE something for that to happen. Nothing comes for free. The NFLPA isn't simply going to say "yeah, pay them less"... and not have something else removed from the shelf. Won't happen that way.
    The popularity of the NBA had little to do with why I posted that.

    They have a rookie slotting system that works very well. Sorry for showing the NBA example, I didn't know it would elicit such a harsh response.

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