Thread: Ask Anything (Defensively)

Originally Posted by cuzz4169

If you don't like don't read his thread. Pretty simple if you ask me.

/shrug

It's here if anyone wants to use it as opposed to inferring text in anyway that hurts their self-esteem lol

Okay, well I think we've worked this thing about Rev over pretty good. It just
may be that he does have some things to contribute in this thread. If we get
too worked up about credentials, then the ego problem can end up being our
own.


TR, when defending Denver, I do think I would be more concerned about
McGahee than Tebow. When Tebow runs, he turns into a FB -- a very good
one, admittedly, but a FB nonetheless. It seems the old split T kind of deal,
doesn't it?

My concern about Tebow is to keep him contained on the edges of the
pocket and not let him get outside on passing downs.

So on running downs, make Tebow beat me, and on passing downs, make
him do it from the pocket. Does that make sense?

-----

Originally Posted by topscribe

Okay, well I think we've worked this thing about Rev over pretty good. I just
may be that he does have some things to contribute in this thread. If we get
too worked up about credentials, then the ego problem can end up being our
own.


TR, when defending Denver, I do think I would be more concerned about
McGahee than Tebow. When Tebow runs, he turns into a FB -- a very good
one, admittedly, but a FB nonetheless. It seems the old split T kind of deal,
doesn't it?

My concern about Tebow is to keep him contained on the edges of the
pocket and not let him get outside on passing downs.

So on running downs, make Tebow beat me, and on passing downs, make
him do it from the pocket. Does that make sense?

-----

Reference this part of post #3 in this thread:

Originally Posted by TheReverend

2. More than 11 v 11: Tim's run ability and that multi-dimensional rushing game usually translates into at LEAST the weakside DE playing contain (often BOTH DE's), which dramatically slows the pass rush as they're now taking away rushing lanes instead of trying to apply quick pressure. We also generally see 1-2 LBs playing "spy", which opens up coverage seams even more (ref: Miami deep throw to Fells, both TDs @ Oakland, etc).

So how would you rank the respective defensive positions, overall? I.e., the
Giants seem to think you put the studs on the line first and worry about the
secondary afterward.

-----

Originally Posted by topscribe

So how would you rank the respective defensive positions, overall? I.e., the
Giants seem to think you put the studs on the line first and worry about the
secondary afterward.

-----

Well your example is wrong, first of all. Just because the Giants DL is superior to their secondary hardly displays how they prioritize the units.

In the Tom Coughlin era they've invested 4 first round picks in DBs (Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, Prince Amukamara and Kenny Phillips), versus 2 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt by counting Kiwi who plays OLB now) on the DL (JPP and Kiwi).

That being said, "ranking" positions is silly. A defense is extremely symbiotic and you take a game changer where you can get them regardless of position.

A CB can impact the run game and passing game outside of their direct impact by improving coverage and allowing an 8th man in the box or an extra blitzer for pressure etc.

A DE can directly impact the coverage and run game by collapsing the pocket sooner or setting the edge or simply making the play.

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who or where they play, as long as they can play.

I'm more in Top's world of thinking. Didnt the NYG invest more on their DL, just in the last few yrs, than those 4 you listed?

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Originally Posted by rcsodak

I'm more in Top's world of thinking. Didnt the NYG invest more on their DL, just in the last few yrs, than those 4 you listed?

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...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Well your example is wrong, first of all. Just because the Giants DL is superior to their secondary hardly displays how they prioritize the units.

In the Tom Coughlin era they've invested 4 first round picks in DBs (Aaron Ross, Corey Webster, Prince Amukamara and Kenny Phillips), versus 2 (and that's giving the benefit of the doubt by counting Kiwi who plays OLB now) on the DL (JPP and Kiwi).

That being said, "ranking" positions is silly. A defense is extremely symbiotic and you take a game changer where you can get them regardless of position.

A CB can impact the run game and passing game outside of their direct impact by improving coverage and allowing an 8th man in the box or an extra blitzer for pressure etc.

A DE can directly impact the coverage and run game by collapsing the pocket sooner or setting the edge or simply making the play.

So I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I don't care who or where they play, as long as they can play.

Corey Webster was a second round pick. So, they have taken 3 DB in the first and 2 DL. Not really a statement on prioritization either way.

Originally Posted by TheReverend

...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.

They have also used 2nd round picks on Tuck, Joseph, and Austin. So first round picks on JPP and Kiwanuka, second round picks on Tuck, Joseph and Austin. To say the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority is a little silly.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot Osi (2nd) and William Joseph (1st)

If you guys have any more questions about NYG personnel moves or anything, just let me know.

Originally Posted by slim

Corey Webster was a second round pick. So, they have taken 3 DB in the first and 2 DL. Not really a statement on prioritization either way.

Originally Posted by slim

If you guys have any more questions about NYG personnel moves or anything, just let me know.

Originally Posted by slim

They have also used 2nd round picks on Tuck, Joseph, and Austin. So first round picks on JPP and Kiwanuka, second round picks on Tuck, Joseph and Austin. To say the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority is a little silly.

Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot Osi (2nd) and William Joseph (1st)

Corey Webster WAS a 2nd round pick, you're right there.

Tuck wasn't. Tuck was a 3rd round pick... behind Webster in fact.

And Osi was drafted before Tom Coughlin and before GM Jerry Reese.

And if you want to start including these 2nd round picks, sure:

First or second round DL:

Kiwi 2006 (being generous including him)
JPP 2010
Linval Joseph 2010
Marvin Austin 2011

First or second round Secondary selections:

Corey Webster 2005
Aaron Ross 2007
Kenny Phillips 2008
Terrell Thomas 2008
Prince Amukamara 2011

Nice try, but like I said, hardly a DL emphasis.

Originally Posted by TheReverend

...in what way?

Through Coughlin's tenure the only FA DL they've made a priority has been Chris Canty. Meanwhile they let a great player like Cofield walk and Osi's still waiting for a new contract.

As far as the draft is concerned, secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks, and Antrell Rolle was just as big of a FA splash as Canty was.

So I have no idea where you're getting this "Giants build DL first and secondary is an afterthought" concept outside of performance. Their DL wins their matchups and gets the attention they deserve, but they've been fighting every bit as hard (if not more) to field a dominant secondary.

Rocky Bernard...Jimmy Kennedy. Maybe not top priority choices, but targets nonetheless.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Rocky Bernard...Jimmy Kennedy. Maybe not top priority choices, but targets nonetheless.

Brian Witherspoon, Deon Grant, Will Blackmon, etc.

What's your point?

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Brian Witherspoon, Deon Grant, Will Blackmon, etc.

What's your point?

You said Canty was the only FA DL target. I added 2 to the list. I thought my point was pretty obvious, Mr. Ego.

Originally Posted by TheReverend

Corey Webster WAS a 2nd round pick, you're right there.

Tuck wasn't. Tuck was a 3rd round pick... behind Webster in fact.

And Osi was drafted before Tom Coughlin and before GM Jerry Reese.

And if you want to start including these 2nd round picks, sure:

First or second round DL:

Kiwi 2006 (being generous including him)
JPP 2010
Linval Joseph 2010
Marvin Austin 2011

First or second round Secondary selections:

Corey Webster 2005
Aaron Ross 2007
Kenny Phillips 2008
Terrell Thomas 2008
Prince Amukamara 2011

Nice try, but like I said, hardly a DL emphasis.

I never said they emphasised DL in the draft. Only pointing out that your statement "the secondary has been a MUCH higher priority in terms of top draft picks" is not really accurate. Any reasonable person can see that is not true.