Thread: Woody Paige: John Elway wants Tim Tebow to "pull the trigger" in NFL playoffs

For Denver to win they have to dominate Pitts passing game and contain Ben.

They may need a defensive td.

Pitt was a worse draw than anyone for you guys.

Originally Posted by King87

For Denver to win they have to dominate Pitts passing game and contain Ben.

They may need a defensive td.

Pitt was a worse draw than anyone for you guys.

Defensive TDs might be all we can score.

Originally Posted by rcsodak

Shut uuuup...


.....I keeel you!

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Bring it don't sing it.

Originally Posted by HammeredOut

So how Tebow good at 1st downs and Touchdowns?? He only put up 17 points or less in 5 of his wins... That is not exactly good at Touchdowns... I believe its the opposite. Proves that he isn't a good QB at all.. Tebow hasn't completed over 50% of his passes in either of his games, and completed like 40% of his passes the past month. Along with his 123 yards per game he averages in the air, its pathetic if anything. He has a 23%, 3rd down completion percentage, and is ranked dead last in every statistical category for a QB in the NFL..

Im not sure what cup of tea your drinking, but please pass that stuff out before your next Broncos Playoff Party... The Party might need it after hearing this..

Good enough for an average season rating in the completion percentage obsessed stat. His TD% is 4.4, better than Alex Smith and Roethlisberger (who have the 9th and 10th best PR,) his Int% is 2.2 (better than Stafford, Manning or Roethlisberger, who rate 5th, 7th and 10th) and his YPA 6.4. That last one is the really bad one (I'm using it as a rough estimate of 1st% because I'm too tired to find a site that lists it for all starters,) putting him a little below Flacco and Dalton and even with Sanchez.

For a guy in his 14th start that's still pretty darned good (obviously it was better 2 weeks and 4 interceptions ago, but that's part of the season, too.) If it's no better after his NEXT 14 games he won't be starting in Denver (or the NFL, most likely.) Yet he finds the end zone more than most and loses the ball less than most when he throws; the key phrase being "when he throws." That's why we look at TD/Int% not totals: He played 2/3 of a season and rarely threw much; of course his TD TOTALS are lower than guys who threw 2 or 2.5 times more passes.

If he brought his completion percentage up even a little he'd be in Eli Manning territory; he's already there on TD and Int%, but lags in YPA because he misses a lot. Would you dump Manning (whose had >14 starts)?

Think of it this way: He gets enough yards and scores, with few enough turnovers, that his 26th ranked PR is better than 6 guys who complete 10% more passes--in a stat obssessed with completion percentage.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...rterbackRating
As for completion percentage itself: Utterly meaningless. Good QBs complete most of their passes; completing most of passes does not make them good QBs. It's a symptom, not cause, of success.

Proof's in the pudding, and without the yummy 7-4 pudding I'd have nothing to serve at my Playoff Party--because there wouldn't BE one. He's slipped back and must move forward, but the future is not known.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

yeah but they rush 4....this keeps contain on tebow from running and also doesnt allow much offense from the WR's cause they cant beat single coverage

I dunno, if they're only rushing four and we're only sending 2 or 3 receivers, how are they in single coverage? Something's just not adding up.

Joel, how is leading the league in 3 and outs, and winning games with only 2 or 3 offensive drives being good at getting first downs and TDs? You admit Tebow stunk vs KC, but the only difference between that game and about 5 of our wins was that: A, Tebow didn't come up with the one good drive he had been good for, and B, instead of throwing the ball into the 10th row to avoid "tight" windows, he now hangs on to it like Gollum holding on to his precioooussss.

Seems to be the in thing on these forums to want to move Franklin to LG...what makes people think he'd make a good pulling guard? It seems to me the biggest complaint people have about Franklin at RT boils down to him not having the quick feet to handle the wide pass rush on Tebow's blind side, so what makes people think he'll have the feet to effectively pull? I'm not saying he can't, but Beadles gives us 2, 3, 4 key blocks for big runs every game as a pulling guard and it's a staple of our offense.

I agree that Beadles needs to get some more sand in his pants, but that can happen through an offseason or two of heavy lifting. It's a bit funny cuz imo pulling the LG, whether I-formation, handing off out of shotgun, or Tebow calling his own number, has really been the only aspect of our offense that consistently works week to week.

Unless Franklin can pull at least as well as Beadles, I don't see Fox moving him just to get more surge on shortyardage. IF that was Fox's priority, a move would have been made a long time ago.

Originally Posted by bcbronc

I dunno, if they're only rushing four and we're only sending 2 or 3 receivers, how are they in single coverage? Something's just not adding up.

Joel, how is leading the league in 3 and outs, and winning games with only 2 or 3 offensive drives being good at getting first downs and TDs? You admit Tebow stunk vs KC, but the only difference between that game and about 5 of our wins was that: A, Tebow didn't come up with the one good drive he had been good for, and B, instead of throwing the ball into the 10th row to avoid "tight" windows, he now hangs on to it like Gollum holding on to his precioooussss.

Seems to be the in thing on these forums to want to move Franklin to LG...what makes people think he'd make a good pulling guard? It seems to me the biggest complaint people have about Franklin at RT boils down to him not having the quick feet to handle the wide pass rush on Tebow's blind side, so what makes people think he'll have the feet to effectively pull? I'm not saying he can't, but Beadles gives us 2, 3, 4 key blocks for big runs every game as a pulling guard and it's a staple of our offense.

I agree that Beadles needs to get some more sand in his pants, but that can happen through an offseason or two of heavy lifting. It's a bit funny cuz imo pulling the LG, whether I-formation, handing off out of shotgun, or Tebow calling his own number, has really been the only aspect of our offense that consistently works week to week.

Unless Franklin can pull at least as well as Beadles, I don't see Fox moving him just to get more surge on shortyardage. IF that was Fox's priority, a move would have been made a long time ago.

our best run plays are to the right behind kuper and franklin.....beadles has nothing to do with it when he pulls it very often doesnt go well.......its not a big staple at all....he had 1 pull for instance where kendrick freaking lewis came into his gap and blew beadles up.....it was hilarious.......beadles and walton are severe weak links.....

also 3 Wr's requires 3 DB's, 4 DL gives you seven players, that leaves 4 unaccounted for....usually thery were stuffing the box playing run and contain....occasionally they would send the safety and or backer on blitzes....but when we dropped back to throw we had 1 on 1 coverage on the wr's and everyone else was playing the run in the box, the problem when we threw is 5 OL were struggling to pass block 4 DL, and when they sent a blitzer all hell broke lose this is why our TE and RB were on the LOS as well....it hasnt gone well the last few weeks. Teams play the box on us and we struggle on the OL pass protecting big time this leaves teams to use backers and safties underneath in case we get cute, but leaves the DB in man coverage and our WR's have not beat it for shit the last 3 weeks....its pathetic....its just as pathetic as tebows throwing was when they did have a step or 2 on the 4 plays apiece they manged to get open.....

I have no problem understanding tebow played badly the last few weeks he did, what i cant understand is why people dont realize 9 other players on the offense have played just as crappy....like i said again and again....the offense is not helping each other out at all.....the entire execution from everyone but mcghaee is pretty much crappy.....

It is not all tebow just as its not all the OL, just as its not all the WR's......but they straight up our not playing team ball on offense they are executing like shit, they are executing just as bad as the defense did at NE, problem is the O has done it 3 weeks in a row now.....

This is why we backed into the playoffs.....our Qb did no one any favors the last few weeks, but our WR's, OL and even our Back-up RB have played like dog doo as well.....they have to help each other out becasue they arent that talented yet, they need each other and its not happening...this is why our offense scored 3 points last week, not just becasue tebow played like shit but because the whole offense outside of mcghaee has....

as I said before as well its sad when your best single OL performance the last few weeks comes from Hochstein who sat the bench all year...that should tell you all you need to know when he is your best performer in a game over the last 3 weeks....

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

EPIC i just showed her she is rolling


dont worry everyone the OL and WR's will still suck as well tomorrow to

Ok but you suck more.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Ok but you suck more.

apparently cause i just cant seem to get this WR/OL/TE point across....

Originally Posted by Joel

Good enough for an average season rating in the completion percentage obsessed stat. His TD% is 4.4, better than Alex Smith and Roethlisberger (who have the 9th and 10th best PR,) his Int% is 2.2 (better than Stafford, Manning or Roethlisberger, who rate 5th, 7th and 10th) and his YPA 6.4. That last one is the really bad one (I'm using it as a rough estimate of 1st% because I'm too tired to find a site that lists it for all starters,) putting him a little below Flacco and Dalton and even with Sanchez.

Think of it this way: He gets enough yards and scores, with few enough turnovers, that his 26th ranked PR is better than 6 guys who complete 10% more passes--in a stat obssessed with completion percentage.
http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...rterbackRating
As for completion percentage itself: Utterly meaningless. Good QBs complete most of their passes; completing most of passes does not make them good QBs. It's a symptom, not cause, of success.

Proof's in the pudding, and without the yummy 7-4 pudding I'd have nothing to serve at my Playoff Party--because there wouldn't BE one. He's slipped back and must move forward, but the future is not known.

Im not sure if we have been watching the same game or QB. But the Tim Tebow I know has more rushes then completions, hardly a player to be compared to the likes of Alex Smith, Drew Brees, or Matt Stafford.

One of the most important stats on any QB is Yards Per Game (YPG). If our QB is only averaging 124 yards in the air, with a 3rd down convertion percentage of 22%, it doesn't matter what stat you pull out. Because at the end of the day, if we can't convert 3rd down and sustain a drive longer then 7 run plays in a row, then our QB is really not the answer we were looking for. Kyle Orton started off 6-0 as a Bronco starter, the same as Tim Tebow. The ceiling has been hit, and I dont think we have much more to see.

I think it was the 30 yard sack TT took against New England, he drew his last straw for me as a fan of TT. The fact TT doesn't have a high INT rate, goes right along the lines of him not passing the ball enough to even be compared to any QB in the league. Unless some of those QBs run the ball just as much as they pass it, then they can be compared. But solely as a passer in the NFL, Tim Tebow is ranked last in every category as a passer. From 1st down, to 3rd down. TT is at his best when he pounds the ball and lets Willis take the big chunks with those trap plays up the middle. If we don't get that TT who pounds the ball with consistancy to soften the defense, then we are not sticking to the game plan. If TT pulls the trigger so to say, I actually believe that the Pittsburgh defense will outscore our Denver Offense.

I feel that unless we get a defensive TD, or a special teams TD, we don't have a chance. That would be one less drive for us to HAVE to get in order to stay competitive, and we just don't have the offense without that kind of help.

The defense is going to have to win this game for us, again.

That lousy DC in Pittsburgh just MIGHT have a defensive plan that will keep Tim in the pocket, and Polamuannununu will certainly have a large role in that job.

I think the reason we don't see screens, adn the short passes as much as some around here would like to have, is purely because teams are playing man-to-man defense with the safeties in tight... that makes it REALLY hard to get screen passes off without them being sniffed out on early. Deeper passes is an attempt to keep the safeties honest and back, so that lanes open up for the running game, and holes open up for the passing game.

Don't expect the Steelers to sit back in some kind of prevent defense. Good thing is that Pitt is beat up, and their injuries may keep them from being able to pound us into the ground. However, considering our offense isn't much of a threat, they don't need to score a lot of points.

Denver can win this game on FG's.

That is if Fox is willing to grab his stones and kick them. We have Shotgun Willie who can kick it a mile at home. Leave it all on the line and let the kid kick.

(this is for those that feel Denver can only win with a def TD. 12-10 Broncos win on all Shot Gun Willie (Prater) FG's-maybe even a record breaker in there )

Originally Posted by jhildebrand

Denver can win this game on FG's.

That is if Fox is willing to grab his stones and kick them. We have Shotgun Willie who can kick it a mile at home. Leave it all on the line and let the kid kick.

(this is for those that feel Denver can only win with a def TD. 12-10 Broncos win on all Shot Gun Willie (Prater) FG's-maybe even a record breaker in there )

Prater was interviewed on the radio the other day, and is totally pissed that fat basturd C-bass tied the record on his field. I wouldn't be surprised if they attempt a record breaking one if the situation is right...

Originally Posted by King87

For Denver to win they have to dominate Pitts passing game and contain Ben.

They may need a defensive td.

Pitt was a worse draw than anyone for you guys.

Wrong, it was a good draw for us.

Pit won't be able to score many points, which means a close game and a chance to win it in the 4th quarter.

Good luck this weekend, BTW.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

our best run plays are to the right behind kuper and franklin.....beadles has nothing to do with it when he pulls it very often doesnt go well.......its not a big staple at all....he had 1 pull for instance where kendrick freaking lewis came into his gap and blew beadles up.....it was hilarious.......beadles and walton are severe weak links.....

I don't know what to say to this. The best run plays are to the right behind Kuper and Franklin with a pulling/trapping Beadles. Pick any game you want from the past little while and re-watch the big runs...Beadles sets key blocks on his fair share. I really don't understand how you can watch the OL as closely as you do and not notice the significance of the pulling LG in our offense.

I've seen Ray Lewis get run over by Tatum Bell...one play means shit in the big picture.

also 3 Wr's requires 3 DB's, 4 DL gives you seven players, that leaves 4 unaccounted for....usually thery were stuffing the box playing run and contain....occasionally they would send the safety and or backer on blitzes....but when we dropped back to throw we had 1 on 1 coverage on the wr's and everyone else was playing the run in the box, the problem when we threw is 5 OL were struggling to pass block 4 DL, and when they sent a blitzer all hell broke lose this is why our TE and RB were on the LOS as well....it hasnt gone well the last few weeks. Teams play the box on us and we struggle on the OL pass protecting big time this leaves teams to use backers and safties underneath in case we get cute, but leaves the DB in man coverage and our WR's have not beat it for shit the last 3 weeks....its pathetic....its just as pathetic as tebows throwing was when they did have a step or 2 on the 4 plays apiece they manged to get open.....

so they're not in 1on1 coverage, it's just that the help is inside instead of over the top. I mean it's not like the guys playing the run in the box just sit down cross legged on passing plays. They're playing spy, reading Tebow's eyes and trying to get into passing lanes. The CB knows where his help is, so he's playing to take away the long stuff.

If there's four guys rushing, four guys standing around keeping Tebow in the pocket (and taking away underneath passing routes while they're at it) then absolutely the right play is to throw deep away from the CBs help. Problem is, when there is that opportunity, Tebow rarely gets the ball somewhere that gives his WR a chance.

I know there's been drops, but not nearly as many since the CHI game. Willis had the long one where he had to duck inside the CB, and I think Decker has had a couple go through his hands, but it's been better since rock bottom vs CHI.

I have no problem understanding tebow played badly the last few weeks he did, what i cant understand is why people dont realize 9 other players on the offense have played just as crappy....like i said again and again....the offense is not helping each other out at all.....the entire execution from everyone but mcghaee is pretty much crappy.....

It is not all tebow just as its not all the OL, just as its not all the WR's......but they straight up our not playing team ball on offense they are executing like shit, they are executing just as bad as the defense did at NE, problem is the O has done it 3 weeks in a row now.....

I agree to a point. Thing is, when Beadles makes a mistake, it's not all that different than the mistakes most second year guards are going to make. When DThomas drops a pass, most WRs drop some, especially when they're young. I watch our offense, and I see mistakes and inconsistencies, but most are typical of young NFL players.

Tebow, it's a bit different. Some of the throws and decisions he makes aren't typical for a second year pro. It's not just getting fooled on a coverage, it's completely freezing. That's why imo Tebow IS playing worse than the WRs, OLs, RBs, TEs, and coach. Every aspect of our offense, and team, have room for improvement...lots of it. But imo Tebow, as he's currently playing, is the weakest link. He can't be if we want a respectable performance vs PIT.

Originally Posted by slim

Wrong, it was a good draw for us.

Pit won't be able to score many points, which means a close game and a chance to win it in the 4th quarter.

Good luck this weekend, BTW.

I had Pittsburgh as the best match up for us and the Ravens as the worst.