Thread: Offensive Woes

I watched what happened to Sam Bradford when he had no OL. He got beat up, abused, and regressed as a player.

I remember Carr, a kid with so much promise who had his clock permanently altered by all that pressure and became useless.

I dunno, North - for me an OL is really important to every offense. And if Tebow can't take advantage of the one we build, it'll help the next kid not be wasted.

I agree, our passing game is in the trash, but I'm tired of switching out "skill position players" to no net good. We went from Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler/Hillis to Orton/Lloyd/Gaffney/Royal to Tebow/DT/Decker/McGahee and it's not getting us anywhere. If Tebow and McGahee are gone in a year or two but we still don't have a good OL, are we gonna be any better off with the next set?

Feel free to add skill guys wherever and however you can, but I want a solid base on that OL no matter who's on the outside or behind the LOS. A good OL can set us up for a decade - the only thing better is a franchise QB or a mastermind at DC, IMO.

We don't have Drew Brees or Dick LeBeau, but with a couple of tweaks we might be able to put together a fearsome OL. Elway/Sharpe/Smith/Mac/TD got the glory, but without Zimm, Nalen, Schlereth and Jones they don't get their rings.

~G

I don't know why you guys doubt Tebow ability to develop as a passer. He has shown streaks of great play and is unmoved by extremely high-pressure situations. Houston, Minny, New York, Chicago... games where the leash was eventually loosened and he played remarkably well; making all the pro-passes that are out there and against some tough defenses in those last three. I don't think people realize just how inexperienced and often times flatout untalented the offense really is. Tebow has some accuracy issues, but I think that's a result of the attempt to change his mechanics. I believe if we had kept a dependable receiver like Lloyd then things would be a lot easier. The team lacks one of the best things a young QB can have which is a dependable safety valve. A MJD, Ray Rice, Gates, Steve Smith, Harrison, Harvin, anybody like that. But there is nobody like that on this team. And when Denver's slow, plodding receivers can't shake anybody the only person normally available is Fells -- but he's usually blocking. It's just an ill-equipped, undermanned offense as a whole. I think Tebow would look leagues better with just one strong playmaker on offense.

I an surprised john elway doesn't step up and tell mccoy how important it is to use your tight end when he himself had a hall of fame tight end shannon sharpe I just don't see how the tight end us barely a factor our a target when tim tebow used his tight end as a big weapon this is a bad gamelan all the successful teams right now use their tight ends : packers, saints, 49ers especially partriots and lions it is just something that needs to be fixed

Originally Posted by Tebowtime2011

I an surprised john elway doesn't step up and tell mccoy how important it is to use your tight end when he himself had a hall of fame tight end shannon sharpe I just don't see how the tight end us barely a factor our a target when tim tebow used his tight end as a big weapon this is a bad gamelan all the successful teams right now use their tight ends : packers, saints, 49ers especially partriots and lions it is just something that needs to be fixed

I think lway is going to stay out of the coaching. Not his job, hands off. Don't want a rep as a meddler

Originally Posted by Tebowtime2011

I an surprised john elway doesn't step up and tell mccoy how important it is to use your tight end when he himself had a hall of fame tight end shannon sharpe I just don't see how the tight end us barely a factor our a target when tim tebow used his tight end as a big weapon this is a bad gamelan all the successful teams right now use their tight ends : packers, saints, 49ers especially partriots and lions it is just something that needs to be fixed

That is not his job. He will evaluate the coaches with Fox but he will not tell a coach how to coach in the middle of a season.

Originally Posted by NameUsedBefore

I don't know why you guys doubt Tebow ability to develop as a passer. He has shown streaks of great play and is unmoved by extremely high-pressure situations. Houston, Minny, New York, Chicago... games where the leash was eventually loosened and he played remarkably well; making all the pro-passes that are out there and against some tough defenses in those last three. I don't think people realize just how inexperienced and often times flatout untalented the offense really is. Tebow has some accuracy issues, but I think that's a result of the attempt to change his mechanics. I believe if we had kept a dependable receiver like Lloyd then things would be a lot easier. The team lacks one of the best things a young QB can have which is a dependable safety valve. A MJD, Ray Rice, Gates, Steve Smith, Harrison, Harvin, anybody like that. But there is nobody like that on this team. And when Denver's slow, plodding receivers can't shake anybody the only person normally available is Fells -- but he's usually blocking. It's just an ill-equipped, undermanned offense as a whole. I think Tebow would look leagues better with just one strong playmaker on offense.

His problem is consistency. All QBs drafted can show glimore of hope but whether they can keep it week in and week out is the question. I dont want to go into a game and be wondering if its going to be a good day or a crappy day. I want him to be consistent. But whether that means he need to throw more to get into a rhythm, more dependable WRs, or screen/out passes like the rest of the league. He just needs to steadily improve and the last 2 weeks he was bad.

Im sure Fox, McCoy and Elway know how important a TE is.

Originally Posted by claymore

Im sure Fox, McCoy and Elway know how important a TE is.

in the running game yes. But fully utilize a TE i dont not think McCoy is doing that.

Originally Posted by Phidelt218

in the running game yes. But fully utilize a TE i dont not think McCoy is doing that.

I think he was eluding too the idea that Elway had worked with Shannon Sharpe who did both.

I also dont think Tebow has the mental skill set to do the things Fox or Elway want him to do.

He might be the Payton Manning of the read option offense, but that shit was only marginally better than the ghey "Wild Horse" that McD used. It fooled some for a minute, but now its silly.

Originally Posted by claymore

Im sure Fox, McCoy and Elway know how important a TE is.

Actually clay if you look at Fox's track record his TEs have never been a focal point. Now that said Im really not sure how much Fox has to do with offensive game planning and play design, and our draft this year would speak to his wanting an athletic playmaking type TE with the signings of Thomas and Green.

Originally Posted by claymore

I also dont think Tebow has the mental skill set to do the things Fox or Elway want him to do.

He might be the Payton Manning of the read option offense, but that shit was only marginally better than the ghey "Wild Horse" that McD used. It fooled some for a minute, but now its silly.

Now you think Tebow is dumb. Just how low are you willing to go to bash our starting QB WHO HELPED GET US INTO THE PLAYOFFS, for **** sake.

Originally Posted by G_Money

I watched what happened to Sam Bradford when he had no OL. He got beat up, abused, and regressed as a player.

I remember Carr, a kid with so much promise who had his clock permanently altered by all that pressure and became useless.

I dunno, North - for me an OL is really important to every offense. And if Tebow can't take advantage of the one we build, it'll help the next kid not be wasted.

I agree, our passing game is in the trash, but I'm tired of switching out "skill position players" to no net good. We went from Cutler/Marshall/Scheffler/Hillis to Orton/Lloyd/Gaffney/Royal to Tebow/DT/Decker/McGahee and it's not getting us anywhere. If Tebow and McGahee are gone in a year or two but we still don't have a good OL, are we gonna be any better off with the next set?

Feel free to add skill guys wherever and however you can, but I want a solid base on that OL no matter who's on the outside or behind the LOS. A good OL can set us up for a decade - the only thing better is a franchise QB or a mastermind at DC, IMO.

We don't have Drew Brees or Dick LeBeau, but with a couple of tweaks we might be able to put together a fearsome OL. Elway/Sharpe/Smith/Mac/TD got the glory, but without Zimm, Nalen, Schlereth and Jones they don't get their rings.

~G

Without them I wouldn't be a Broncos fan, 'cos I'm all about the line. Too many years watching Warren Moon fumble after blind side hits 'cos our genius owner drafted guards every year, then never ran. And watching the early '90s Cowboys lines dominate their way to 4 straight Conference Championships and 3 SBs. Most of all, reading The Hidden Game of Football until the dust jacket's long gone and the spine's starting to separate. Unfortunately, from the stands it's far easier to see when a "skill" players screws up than to see which guys in the scrum blew blocks. Unless you know your stuff, have a good eye and really pay attention, blown plays almost ALWAYS look like the QB or RBs fault, and that's especially true when the problem's at G. You can see a tackle whiff a block on an edge rusher, but it usually takes a slo mo replay to show a DT beating a G.

The line is EVERYTHING. With a good line, good QBs and WR corps can compensate for a non-existent running game by throwing 40 TDs/year; a good back can compensate for a wildly inaccurate QB and WRs with hands like Flipper by getting 5 YPC and 25 rushing TDs. WITHOUT a good line a good QB AND a good RB still won't do much flat on their butts in the backfield. I'd rather have the line than the franchise QB, because the team will run AND pass better with them, but without them even a rookie who belongs in Canton can be PERMANENTLY scarred by poor blocking.

I could have as easily (and more relevantly) made this post: http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/...44#post1504944 here as in the other thread, but it goes for both. I want to link it here because The Hidden Game of Football is a book important enough it CAN'T be plugged too many times. In their chapter on the line they claim Jim Plunkett was a great example of a good young QB completely shell shocked by the poor pass protection he had when the Pats drafted him (if you remember what the Pats were like before Parcells, that makes sense; Tony Eason's probably the least known QB of the '83 class, despite making a SB.) Then the Raiders picked him up and he led them to a couple titles--but only after YEARS behind a much better line where he wasn't bracing for a hit as soon as he yelled, "HUT!"

NFL history is loaded with QBs who might've been great if the teams who spent high draft picks on them had bothered first assembling a decent line instead of expecting a great rookie QB to fix their whole awful team. If Tebow's not the Broncos future, whoever IS will need that line just as badly; until we have it we're just spinning our wheels. The same applies to some extent with young QBs learning to anticipate receivers breaks and confidence in their catching, but that can be compensated for if someone like Barry Sanders is running behind a line like Dallas had in the early '90s. Yet without the line you can do NOTHING, however skilled your "skill" players.

Originally Posted by claymore

I also dont think Tebow has the mental skill set to do the things Fox or Elway want him to do.

He might be the Payton Manning of the read option offense, but that shit was only marginally better than the ghey "Wild Horse" that McD used. It fooled some for a minute, but now its silly.

Everyone with first hand knowledge I've heard comment on Tebows intelligence has praised it; that's one of the several things encouraging me about him. He has the arm strength, smarts and work ethic to be a great QB so THEORETICALLY he just needs the training. He clearly doesn't yet have the mental or physical SKILLS, but does have all the TALENT. You're born with talent (or not;) skill is developed.

its sad when I think TO would help our offense