Thread: The Broncos offense...

The offense and Tebow have come under fire a lot recently and for good reason, it's just not working. To help myself understand why it's not working I had to watch some of my daughter's Alma Mater's games this season and it was very revealing.

For some background, my daughter attends Ga Tech who is coached by Paul Johnson, formerly of the Naval Academy, who runs a wing "T" triple option read offense. Their offense is built around the run. They run, run, run, and when defenses crowd the box to stop the run, they try to hit the deep ball. If the corners play too far off, they sometimes throw a WR bubble screen and hope the WR can break a tackle and then it's off to the races. Our very own Demaryius Thomas grew up in this scheme.

The Broncos offense has been built on these same principles. We mix in a combination of 12 personnel (1 TE, 2 backs), 21 personnel (2TE, 1 RB), pistol/shotgun spread, and we also put in some jumbo fronts with an extra offensive lineman. We run the ball and force the defense to adapt which is supposed to, in theory, open up the passing game by providing single coverage on the outside with typically only a single high Safety.

Here's the rub... Our running game is working as designed. We're piling up yardage and lead the league. The problem is, our passing game is ineffective. Why? Is it Tebow? Is it the WRs? Is it the play design? It's all of the above.

First off, the passing game is extremely elementary when it comes to route design. Often, there are only 2 or 3 receivers in the pattern. Often times, these WRs run deep routes 15+ yards downfield, often they are "go" routes, occasionally with a double move thrown in, or are deep comeback routes. These are long-developing routes which rely on the threat of the running game and play action to hold the LB's and Safeties and allow the WRs to beat single coverage.

Unfortunately, our WRs struggle to beat single coverage - especially when CBs know the route ahead of time - and because the box is already loaded to stop the run, it's very easy for those run stoppers to become pass rushers. Now, you're dealing with an overload blitz scenario and if the CBs can hold their coverage for a short time, the QB has no time to deliver the ball and if he must scramble the WRs are too deep to reliably make an on-target throw down field. The WRs must break off their routes and come back to the ball, which happens sometimes, but because they are so deep it takes even more time to get back to the QB. When the WRs do come open early, Tebow is hesitant to throw and the window closes. He also tends to look deep instead of taking the underneath stuff (if it's there) too often. This allows the defense to close on him while he's waiting for the deep routes to uncover.

So what is the fix? The way I see it, a loaded box should be a QB's dream but we must shorten up the routes. It will help the WRs get open and help vs the pass rush. With the scheme we're running, we've got to use more quick slants and short crosses. This will require Tebow to be accurate, but he can hit a 5 yard slant - he's done it before. It will also require him to make quick and smart decisions because with a loaded box, he'll have to worry about hands getting up to bat down/tip passes. It's no surprise that most of the "elite" pocket passers work the short game to their advantage and use it to beat the blitz (Manning, Brady).

Bootlegs and rollouts with the option to run should be incorporated more, also. Forcing the defense to commit to Tebow's running opens up routes underneath and helps the offensive line avoid holding calls as they try to maintain their blocks while Tim runs around. If it's a designed bootleg/rollout, the O-line knows which way to block and is on the same page, it's not just another scramble drill.

Will this work? I don't know, but it seems as if we aren't even trying. Our playcalling is very predictable and has been easily defensed of late. Tim needs to learn to check down and pull the trigger on open receivers, the receivers need to learn to get open and catch the ball, and the OC needs to help his offense by calling plays that don't take 5 seconds to develop all the time.

Hopefully, these things will come to fruition in the offseason. These plays are probably already in the playbook, we just don't use them. Our passing game struggles because none of the three phases are on the same page. The playcalling, the QB execution, and the route running are all sub par. Fixing the playcalling and making it a little simpler for the WRs and QB is the first step.

The fix is obvious to me... If you are going to give Tebow another season you have to run a spread passing game out of the spread option, much like he did at Florida. You have to give him short crossings, quick screens, rollouts, playactions, comebacks, etc, etc.

Tebow may be the only QB in the NFL who is asked to throw deep on nearly every passing attempt and is probably the least suited to do so.

I have no problem running the football down opponent's throats, but the playcalling needs to improve dramatically if we are going to do so. There is almost no imagination, creativity, or more importantly, rythm to our offense. None at all. McCoy simply does not establish that.

Mike McCoy does NOT need to be calling plays for this team.

The playcalling was working great and fine when our defense and special teams was scoring points. Why? Because you didn't have to ask Tebow to do much. Now that the team isn't riding on those high emotions, and the ball isn't bouncing our way on the defensive side, the offense is being exposed.

The OC is VERY limited by the QB. We've seen what Tebow can do by passing the ball, and its NOT much. That, alone, is completely handcuffing the offense. The WRs were getting open fine when Tebow was able to run the ball forcing teams to respect his legs... now that the defenses aren't rushing "the pocket" and purely rushing in straight lines up the field, those running lanes for Tebow have vanished.

We may not have the best Wrs in the NFL by any stretch, but when they are open, the QB isn't seeing them...or...is throwing a tad late that is allowing the DBs to break up the pass. Tebow's inability to throw the ball accurately and on time, is completely limiting what this offense can not only DO, but call.

I guess I struggle with the concept that we should have Tebow throw more, when he's proving (unfortunately in a very drastic way) that he's as bad at passing as people said he was when coming from the training camps.

McCoy gets a free pass for Tebow's struggles. McCoy sucked last year when he took over the playcalling as well, not just with Tebow but with Orton too. He sucked with Orton in there this year.

You give Tebow an OC like Mike Shanahan and you would see dramatically better results because Shanahan would find the mismatches and exploit them. Tebow isn't incapable of playing the position he just isn't being used in the passing game to his strengths.

We have NO short passing game. Where are the screens? Where are the RB swings? When Moreno wen't down we stopped using them. Surely we have a guy capable of actually catching a screen pass but we don't call them.

No other QB in the NFL is asked to go an entire game without throwing high percentage passes. It's comically stupid and those who blame that on Tebow are just kidding themselves. If you want to blame Tebow there is plenty that you can blame him for, but you had better throw an equal amount McCoy's direction.

Did you even watch Tebow at Florida? The way Urban used him was brilliant and absolutely effective. To be a good playcaller you need imagination, intelligence, and creativity. I am not sure McCoy has any of those attributes.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

The playcalling was working great and fine when our defense and special teams was scoring points. Why? Because you didn't have to ask Tebow to do much. Now that the team isn't riding on those high emotions, and the ball isn't bouncing our way on the defensive side, the offense is being exposed.

The OC is VERY limited by the QB. We've seen what Tebow can do by passing the ball, and its NOT much. That, alone, is completely handcuffing the offense. The WRs were getting open fine when Tebow was able to run the ball forcing teams to respect his legs... now that the defenses aren't rushing "the pocket" and purely rushing in straight lines up the field, those running lanes for Tebow have vanished.

We may not have the best Wrs in the NFL by any stretch, but when they are open, the QB isn't seeing them...or...is throwing a tad late that is allowing the DBs to break up the pass. Tebow's inability to throw the ball accurately and on time, is completely limiting what this offense can not only DO, but call.

I guess I struggle with the concept that we should have Tebow throw more, when he's proving (unfortunately in a very drastic way) that he's as bad at passing as people said he was when coming from the training camps.

Agreed. While I will admit that we don't have the best WRs in the league, they are a serviceable bunch. The problem still resides with Tebow's inability to throw an accurate ball on time. He has shown that he is completely unable to put the ball into a tight window. After all, this is the NFL and WR are not going to be wide open all the time. Often they have a step on a DB and that is the window in which to fit the ball in. Tebow can't do this yet (and it is highly debatable if he ever will be able to).

The Buffalo game exposed Tebow's inability to throw accurate passes into tight windows. Let's not even start on the complete inability to read pre- and post-snap defenses etc. He still has not shown improvement in the passing game, and do to this I still abide my time on the fence regarding Tebow.

The dude has a LOT to improve upon this offseason, and if he doesn't then we will end up wasting all of next year on him. That means drafting a QB in the draft after next season and starting the process all over again.

It would be nice if Tebow could be the man as this would allow us to focus on the numerous other question marks we have on this team, but it is clear that as of this moment he is just as big of a question mark as any other position on this team...

Edit: I am the only one who feels that Tebow regressed in the last two starts? Not saying the reason for why that is, but it is the way it looks to me.

Originally Posted by BroncoStud

McCoy gets a free pass for Tebow's struggles. McCoy sucked last year when he took over the playcalling as well, not just with Tebow but with Orton too. He sucked with Orton in there this year.

You give Tebow an OC like Mike Shanahan and you would see dramatically better results because Shanahan would find the mismatches and exploit them. Tebow isn't incapable of playing the position he just isn't being used in the passing game to his strengths.

Just curious Broncostud, but what do you see as Tebow's strengths in the passing game? I have a hard time seeing any so I need your perspective on this.

Originally Posted by BroncoStud

McCoy gets a free pass for Tebow's struggles. McCoy sucked last year when he took over the playcalling as well, not just with Tebow but with Orton too. He sucked with Orton in there this year.

You give Tebow an OC like Mike Shanahan and you would see dramatically better results because Shanahan would find the mismatches and exploit them. Tebow isn't incapable of playing the position he just isn't being used in the passing game to his strengths.

We have NO short passing game. Where are the screens? Where are the RB swings? When Moreno wen't down we stopped using them. Surely we have a guy capable of actually catching a screen pass but we don't call them.

No other QB in the NFL is asked to go an entire game without throwing high percentage passes. It's comically stupid and those who blame that on Tebow are just kidding themselves. If you want to blame Tebow there is plenty that you can blame him for, but you had better throw an equal amount McCoy's direction.

Did you even watch Tebow at Florida? The way Urban used him was brilliant and absolutely effective. To be a good playcaller you need imagination, intelligence, and creativity. I am not sure McCoy has any of those attributes.

Hold on. How do you know that he's not given the high percentage pass? He missed 9-11 passes in a row. How wide open does the guy have to be for him to hit the pass? They aren't going to call plays purely to get Tebow's passing numbers up. Hard to throw a screen pass when EVERYONE is looking for it and no longer rushing the pocket.

Teams aren't rushing the pocket, they are rushing straight up the field with knowledge that Tim won't sit in pocket....and taking away his rushing lanes.

Usually simple outs are high % throws. Granted, the Chiefs DBs are stud. They rocked the Packers and Rodgers didn't find many openings. But to say that the easy passes aren't called to help Tim out is a bit misleading considering Tim is missing everything on the field.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

I guess I struggle with the concept that we should have Tebow throw more, when he's proving (unfortunately in a very drastic way) that he's as bad at passing as people said he was when coming from the training camps.

Good post. I would nly disagree with the last part. Tebow is bad at the passes they continue to call. Someone should talk to McCoy about the definition of insanity.

It isn't playcalling in run vs pass ratio, at least for me. It is play selection, stale formation, and the same ol same ol despite it not working. Again, the rollouts and playaction with option, screen should be there more. This team should be hurrying to the line quicker. There is such a lack of ingenuity it is disgusting.

Originally Posted by jhildebrand

Good post. I would nly disagree with the last part. Tebow is bad at the passes they continue to call. Someone should talk to McCoy about the definition of insanity.

It isn't playcalling in run vs pass ratio, at least for me. It is play selection, stale formation, and the same ol same ol despite it not working. Again, the rollouts and playaction with option, screen should be there more. This team should be hurrying to the line quicker. There is such a lack of ingenuity it is disgusting.

The playcalling might not be the best, but no one is considering why that is. If they play-call to Tebow's strengths then maybe this is what our offense is limited to. Do you think that might actually be the reason for the offensive scheme and playcalling that we see?

All of that is great but you need stud receivers who can get separation and can catch the ball to make that happen.

Someone like Megatron or Michael Irvin.

Originally Posted by jlarsiii

Agreed. While I will admit that we don't have the best WRs in the league, they are a serviceable bunch. The problem still resides with Tebow's inability to throw an accurate ball on time. He has shown that he is completely unable to put the ball into a tight window. After all, this is the NFL and WR are not going to be wide open all the time. Often they have a step on a DB and that is the window in which to fit the ball in. Tebow can't do this yet (and it is highly debatable if he ever will be able to).

The Buffalo game exposed Tebow's inability to throw accurate passes into tight windows. Let's not even start on the complete inability to read pre- and post-snap defenses etc. He still has not shown improvement in the passing game, and do to this I still abide my time on the fence regarding Tebow.

The dude has a LOT to improve upon this offseason, and if he doesn't then we will end up wasting all of next year on him. That means drafting a QB in the draft after next season and starting the process all over again.

It would be nice if Tebow could be the man as this would allow us to focus on the numerous other question marks we have on this team, but it is clear that as of this moment he is just as big of a question mark as any other position on this team...

Edit: I am the only one who feels that Tebow regressed in the last two starts? Not saying the reason for why that is, but it is the way it looks to me.

you aren't the only one who thinks he has regressesd, it looked to me like he was seeing a guy, them double checking that he was open, by the time he trusted his read the window was gone. I dissagree that the receivers are a servicalbe bunch unless you meant that they have potential to be servicable. No matter who the QB ends up being the receiver need to be able to get more seperation quicker more consistently in single man coverage. Part of it is the coaches routes, part of it is the receivers and a lot of it is the QB not being able to make them pay on the occasions they do get open, meaning teams won't play zone. Right now there is no single player on the team that demands a double team and that is unnaceptable if you want success as a passing team. Still doesn't excuse 6/22

Originally Posted by catfish

you aren't the only one who thinks he has regressesd, it looked to me like he was seeing a guy, them double checking that he was open, by the time he trusted his read the window was gone. I dissagree that the receivers are a servicalbe bunch unless you meant that they have potential to be servicable. No matter who the QB ends up being the receiver need to be able to get more seperation quicker more consistently in single man coverage. Part of it is the coaches routes, part of it is the receivers and a lot of it is the QB not being able to make them pay on the occasions they do get open, meaning teams won't play zone. Right now there is no single player on the team that demands a double team and that is unnaceptable if you want success as a passing team. Still doesn't excuse 6/22

That is the way I have seen it the last couple of weeks. Tebow hesitates and the opportunity to throw the ball is lost.

As far as the WRs it is hard to judge I suppose. I think they are serviceable now, with the opportunity to be good if they can manage not to drop so many passes and run crisper routes. However it is hard to judge them accurately with Tebow as QB. I mean, who makes who look worse on the field? Does the WR play bring down Tebow's or vice versa?

Originally Posted by jlarsiii

The playcalling might not be the best, but no one is considering why that is. If they play-call to Tebow's strengths then maybe this is what our offense is limited to. Do you think that might actually be the reason for the offensive scheme and playcalling that we see?

Of course they are calling a game to play to Tebow's strengths but at the same time, they are also calling a game to limit his deficiencies. Which side are they favoring. The last two weeks they looked like the focus was more on the latter-i.e. playing not to lose instead of playing to win. Woody has said as much.

Even if they are playing to Tebow's strengths, than why isn't there more of a hurry up? Why don't they run Tebow on 3rd and 1? You telling me a deep toss to JJ on 3rd 1 plays to Tebow's strengths? It doesn't! The championship teams would run TD even when EVERYBODY in the stadium KNEW that was going to happen. I am not saying this team is anywhere near that level but simply youre always better playing to your strengths in those situations. No need to get so fancy with it.

Finally, this was supposed to be an 11 week evaluation. I am not sure I have seen the staff really try to do much more with Tebow since the MN game. At least mix up some formations and when you pass.

This team finally passed on 2nd down yesterday and it opened up KC's D and led to one of our better drives. But they backed off again with this team down 7!

Forget the yards, and forget the wins for a moment.

This offense just isn't very good under Tebow. Not at all. It only averages 18.5 ypg. Only 3 times in 11 games did it break the 20+ point barrier.

You aren't going to be a good team in this day and age when you cant break the 20 point barrier once out of almost every 4 games, and only score 18.5 ppg. I don't care how well your defense is.

There are only 4 teams in the NFL that give up less than 18.5 ppg defensively.

The offense is not very good, period.

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

Forget the yards, and forget the wins for a moment.

This offense just isn't very good under Tebow. Not at all. It only averages 18.5 ypg. Only 3 times in 11 games did it break the 20+ point barrier.

You aren't going to be a good team in this day and age when you cant break the 20 point barrier once out of almost every 4 games, and only score 18.5 ppg. I don't care how well your defense is.

There are only 4 teams in the NFL that give up less than 18.5 ppg defensively.

The offense is not very good, period.

I agree. This team didn't score much more with Orton! That is why I don't buy the theory that a kid like andrew luck will come in here and change the team's fortunes in a year or two.

This team on O still has major issues-walton is the worst rated C in the league. Beadles has yet to show much. Clady is disintegrating right before our eyes.

Our D has its issues too-if Dawk is THIS important to this D then we are in trouble because Moore and carter don't show to be growing too much. Our LB
s still need work. We all know the elephant in the room at NT.